To Be pissed off hubby just called me a housewife....

[CoffeeDog]

SO yes i dont have a 'paid' job but we have 3 kids (5) and (twins 2) DH is rarther annoyed to find his favorite shirt is not ironed for his work piss up tonight and had a rant when i suguested he iron it himself.... including that ironing is part of my 'duties' as a housewife. TBH he's bloody lucky it was washed!!!

AIBU to suguest the various things he can do with said Iron?

Thank you very much Joaninha, very useful, great! I'm not terribly computer literate but am having great fun learning my way around MN.

Manicinsomniac, I agree that the actual housework should not take that long, but if Coffeedog has three children, especially TWO YEAR OLD TWINS I think looking after them is going to be full time and intensive. the people who manage a full time job and the housework and the childcare are obviously paying someone ELSE to do the child care ... unless their children are asleep all day.

Coffeedog, have you left him with the children for any length of time? How well did he iron your clothes?

Xenia you should get paid for your entertainment value, never mind your actual job!

I love how you blithely state on these kinds of threads that women should earn more than their partners. You know that it is not possible for every woman to out earn every man. You know that there are many jobs which are incredibly important to society but are not very well paid and that both men and women do these jobs.

You are also aware of the cost of childcare and the fact that many women stay at home because they can't afford not to.

And, then of course, there are the people who want to be at home because they prefer to do their own childcare and having one SAHP means their family life runs more smoothly than if both parents were WOH. Those people have simply split the tasks of earning money and doing childcare between them - both being necessary and of equal importance.

Oh, and I've done shitloads of housework this week alone. There are 6 people in this house and just the basics of cooking, shopping, school runs, laundry takes ages and that's before you get into the amount of cleaning it takes to keep a house reasonable when you have 4 DC. My working day is different to my DH's, and some days are not as busy as others, but over the course of an average week, I think I am doing the equivalent hours to full time paid employment.

Yanbu to be annoyed about the shirt-ironing. That said if you always do it and he has chores he always does, and you said you'd do it, then maybe he has a right to be annoyed. But it depends how clearly you are agreed on the share of work. The term 'housewife' is often used to disparage women and is pretty old fashioned IMHO. Agree with Ephiny - I'd be concerned about this notion of 'duties', especially if it's news to you! This isn't the 1950s!

yes but why do so many earn pin money compared to what their men earn? Do they have lower IQs? Were they too busy applying mascara instead of revising for A levels? Were their mothers housewives? Why is it that woman after woman on here earns a lot less? Do they only want men who are richer? Most girls "marry up"

I had a pretty good salary, Xenia. But DH is in a different league.

Besides, I realised a long time ago I preferred not to work and DH felt the same.

It's great work is what keeps you buzzing, I'm genuinely pleased for you. Good job we are all different, though, eh?

xenia- in answer to your questions-no I wasnt too busy "applying" mascara. I have a degree as does my dh. I wanted to/chose to be a sahm. I was brought up in a single parent family and my mum worked constantly leaving all the childcare to my gps. I didnt want that for my dcs.
Also in pointing out that working parents manage to work,do household chores and look after their dcs-no sorry but they dont. They pay someone else or use family as childcare. Not starting a sahm v wohm btw I am just pointing out the obvious.

I stay at home to spend time with my children, I do their chores, cook for them, feed them, play with them, teach them, take them out.
I have a cleaner to do the housework and iron his clothes.
I wash his clothes good enough for him, feed him, although I have no obligation to cook for him.
He goes to work to pay for his family that doesn't mean I have to do his chores. Does he like it? no, nor do I care. I made it clear to him few years ago. Obviously I work harder than him but I wont be treated like sh** just because I had given up my life/career to look after OUR children.
You are right on and actually you should never be ironing his clothes, unless he was sick or something.

Xenia, I think women end up earning less than men because we take time out for maternity leave or take a little time out to SAH, then find it hard to get back into the workplace. It's hard to get back into the workplace because people not unlike yourself see no value in raising children and would rather hire someone who hasn't taken time out. Childcare costs are expensive and it's often hard to get good wrap around care. Children are seen as a liability in this country rather than a valuable contribution to the future of society.

Our workplaces in this country are not geared towards helping families work and look after their DC. In the end it's often less hassle for one person to work and one to stay home. Compare us to a country like Denmark, where the state subsidises child care and most women do return to work. Denmark, is not perfect though, because SAH for an extended period is seen as almost weird, whereas I think it is a question of individual preferences.

My own background, is that I had two working parents. Mum was an intensive care nurse and dad worked for the council. Not sure who earned the most but I recall being looked after by both parents and housework being shared.

I also think that women, when they've just had a baby often feel a biological need to not leave them and rush back to work. Not sure dads feel it in quite the same way. Given a choice my DH would prefer to go out to work, so long as he knew the DC were well looked after. For me, I wanted to be the one doing the 'looking after'.

It's about being equally respected for whatever each person brings to the household. It's about being a partnership and working together so that the stupidity of 'labels' would not even figure. I am more than a part-time working mother of 4, my husband is more than a full-time working father of 4. We are more than just husband and wife.

xenia - theres a myriad of reaons why women choose to stay at home and i think you are being quite judgemental that its an inferior choice.

i stay at home with dd because dh works away from march to november so she doenst see much of her dad - it would be unfair on her to park her in nursery full time so i can work too especially since dh earns up to 90k a year. I am considering/applying to go back to work when she is 2 BUT we will see how it goes. When she was born i was adamant that it would be me who heard her first words and saw her take her first steps - and it was. I've had a decade of pleasing myself careeer and lifexstyle wise. dd will only be little once and i want to be there - for me as much as her.

If we were a lower income family I would be working now - simple as that but we are not so I feel like I should do the right thing by dd and be with her as much as possible.

Meanwhile I mentioned this thread to dh - he scoffed and said 'ridiculous! why should anyone be ironing my shirt for ^me?'

Xenia, you're forgetting one huge part of the equation here. It's the type of men most women marry (be they like this naturally or just via nurture in our type of society) - and I don't mean from a financial earning power perspective.

Even when women have high-powered careers and gain the salary power a lot of breadwinning men command, they need "wives" at home - not just to arrange paid childcare if the men also work, but also someone who can focus on when the next dentist appointment is due, drop work for an hour for taking a sick child home, whatever. Basically to be the secondary earner in a house, if both parties work.

What most women lack, which is a barrier as much as women's self-esteem, lack of opportunity, etc is the men they marry in general. There just aren't enough men willing to become wives around.

In my own circle, I didn't see this issue crop up an awful lot - but I have a very narrow perspective/circle of friends and relatives, which don't reflect the complexity of the UK's parents (age, class, race, whatever) however it's something MN has opened my eyes to. I was shocked and saddened - and then I read Wifework and saw it was MN that was "the norm" - NOT my household.

Actually Xenia, my mother had a successful, professional career and worked full time. I have an undergraduate degree, a professional postgraduate qualification and an MBA (even though I always wear mascara!). I used to earn the same as my husband. My choice was to stay at home when we had children. I like the word 'housewife' and I describe myself as a feminist. If everyone was a little more supportive of other's choices and a little less judgemental it could only be a good thing and would help combat the lack of self-esteem that some feel.

I always find these threads very puzzling, lots of people explain how it's 'easier' if one person stays at home, then lots of SAHP explain how they would never do any housework or be a domestic slave or even cook for their husbands. So, how is it much 'easier' to have a SAHP if all they do is the childcare bit? (this would be very easily solved if you had a nanny or a great nursery or childminder)

I do expect the SAHP role to include some housekeeping and general domestic tasks, otherwise it doesn't make sense to me to have one person stay home unless you are very wealthy. I hated my husband being a SAHP as although he did the childcare very well, the house was trashed, and after commuting (driving) 1 1/2 hours a day and a demanding job (much more demanding than pottering around with one small child, I know as I used to do it before he took a turn), I didn't want to come in and do several hours housework. It's not domestic slavery to turn a washing machine on and when I was at home, I happily paid bills, did domestic tasks, cleaned a bit, cooked food not in a slavish way, but just as I was the one home all day and so physically in the right location to help everything run smoothly.

It's no good pointing out that having a housekeeper is a separate job than a nanny. Rich people also pay for a chef as well, but normal people have to cook alongside their everyday lives!

But what I want to know is (a) do you earn more than your husband and (b0 did you when you married (c) did you date men who earned a lot less than you, say 50% less? (d) if you outearned your husband for a good few years by a long way before having babies how did you decide to give up your higher salary and live on his lower one?

Is money all that defines you, xenia?

We SAHMs have the hardest job - we are nurses, teachers, referees, iron maidens and chefs and its the worst paid job of all, that's why I am a Registered childminder and school dinner lady to add to my paltry income.

I keep reminding DH I am NOT his mother who must have pandered to his every need although I do the ironing and washing. My 17 yr old DD helps by cooking dinners when she is not dossing at her mates and the eldest who is back from uni for the holidays will be helping too.

I do get help with housework these days, DH helps by cooking a BBQ now and again!

utter tosh

sahm has no statutory responsibilities or regulatory body.or core set of skills -unlike teachers or nurses

i cook dinner doesnt make me a chef

giving your kid calpol doesnt make you a nurse either

SAHM is not the hardest job - may feel like it when having tough day but to state it as a fact It is not appreciated, shit pay, boring and long hours but that's like many careers.

sahm unlike a job has no external rules,guidelines,time to adhere to
no targets,no boss,no sanction if work not of certain standard
and time to fanny about on mn

My grandmother had 8 kids and 11 pregnancies in 15 years while living with a violent, cruel alcoholic who was sexually abusing her daughters and herself and who caused her to lose several pregnancies through beatings etc.

I'd say yeah, she probably had the hardest job in the world to keep going. Most of the rest of you are just kidding yourselves. The hardest job in the world is staying at home with your kids and doing a bit of cleaning? What a joke.

All these titles confuse me, a sahm doesn't stay at home 24/7 a house wife is not married to the home

Perhaps you cleaver mm can come up with a suitable title

With all respect Mum2Luke that's balls.

Being a SAHM is a piece of piss compared to working part or full time out of the home. No fixed time pressures, no targets to meet, no extra studying or training to do.

When you're at home with your own children your time is your own really; if you don't get the washing on by 1000 it's no biggie, just put it on later. If the clothes don't get ironed on Tuesday it's no biggie because you can iron them sometime on Wednesday.

I'm not saying looking after small children is easy, because it's not especially if you have multiples, or 3 under 5 for example. But if you can't bung some clothes in the washing machine once a day, wash up the breakfast things by lunchtime, or have some food ready to eat by teatime then there's something wrong with how you're managing your time.

Even small children do not need parental interaction 100% of the time.

But if you're a childminder and dinner lady then you're not a SAHM are you, because you're working?

Out of interest, is anyone else here crap at housework? I am always doing the things Sidge says, so in between this and that the cooking, washing up, sweeping, emptying bins etc. get done and the washing machine seems to be on constantly but the house always looks like a explosion in a jumble sale/craft shop. It's not that I think it's of massive importance and has no lasting effect, unlike the quality of childcare, but I do feel a bit perplexed and embarrassed when I notice how organised and neatly arranged other family's houses are. I like to blame lack of storage space or an artistic nature, but actually I know I'm slow and ineffective at it. I expect it's an easier task for some than for others????

And back to CoffeeDog's question: he was only going out for a drink, it wasn't for a really important interview or anything. He sounds uptight and moody. But I hope you've made up by now and resolved your labour division issues. As times pass in a relationship there are so many developments and adjustments to be made.I believe that good communication and good will are the saving graces.How is it going?

I haven't read the whole thread. But can I just say, I consider ironing to be personal care. Like, you know, brushing your teeth. I do my own, and I do my DD's, and my DSD's. But my OH does his own. To be fair, DSD does brush her own teeth, but she's a little young to be allowed to brandish a hot thing. This male entitlement to ironed shirts things really pisses me off.

I am happy to identify myself as a housewife. it has a bit more cache to it than 'call centre employee' ..

There may be a problem with the perception of 'the housewife' (associated words: bored, desperate etc) but the word itself i don't have a problem with. It would be a better effort to make it less allowable to allege that women who don't do paid work are valueless. There is so much more to life than doing paid work.