AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

Can I just say that I have only read a quarter of the thread so far but I agree with everything seeker and sinicalsal have said so far (ss are you a name changer?)

I'm typing this as I crochet a breast and wait for a suitable time to text someone to find out what time my feminist group is on today

seeker - nutty ideas I have come across personally (bearing in mind my very infrequent visits to the feminism section to post)

1. boys education doesn't matter - they have had it their way for so long we need only focus on the girls (this is despite the fact that girls are out performing boys)

1. All differences between sexes is purely the result of socialisation. Males and females are the same biologically. I have an MSc is psychology, quoted studies where this was shown not to be true but apparently because the researchers were male, their opinions didn't count. I can't argue with that kind of nonsense so I am left feeling that there is nothing to identify with on the feminism section. It wouldn't have been so bad if it really were just the few who held the view. The problem was that the supposedly moderate feminists didn't seem to want to question such madness either. They just faded away.

Carmin[....ive yet to meet a lower working-class woman who identifies with feminism]
wavesat Carmin.im sparky-a feminist and a member of the"underclass"
i dont read books and i dont do long words and half the time no one else seems to know what im on about-however-i shall persivere[cant spell either]
i notice that a few people have mentioned that feminism is only for the middle-class ect-its not.
but unless others come forward and join in-well-the underclass wont be heard will we.
change only happens when people stand up.
i find it worrying that some women are saying that they feel oppressed by feminists-this shouldnt be happening should it.
i hope i dont make others feel oppressed-not my intention at all-
i think though that[for me certainly]im very vocal about things very close to my heart-but id hate to think i opress others in this!

Sorry, that should say, 'outperforming boys in many subjects...' Not all obviously.

Most of them are scared to question. Look at the bullying.

I've seen you around on the feminist board sparky, and as far as I'm aware, you've been having a good time, asking questions and getting civil answers.

Sparky - you are lovely. I've never seen you patronise or attack ideas that don't tick all the boxes - if only there were more like you on the feminist section.

exoticfruits - I've now read 'fear of men" all the way through and still don't understand!

Sorry-wrong one! It was my second link on family heirarchy.

The feminism board is intimidating and seems to be full of posters who will shout down, gang up and jump down the throats of anybody who asks questions or has a different viewpoint

This is my main objection. They then use the favourite bully tactic of ridiculing you when you complain as if you are making a fuss about nothing.

exotic... What makes me feel uncomfortable is the feeling there of posters being either dominant and loudly vocal or submissive, just agreeing and asking what they should think. :(

I don't lump all feminists into one pot, many women have feminist views and there are many aspects that I agree with. I just intensely dislike the 'competitive', 'I'm-a-better-feminist-than-YOU' atmosphere. It's so counterproductive and it doesn't make sense to me.

You're great, Sparky! How's the single parents' group going? Did you get any support for it?

I'm "underclass" too People forget how quickly your perceived class can change. It's a hell of a lot easier to change down than up but, really, it happens all the time both ways. I do agree that "Mumsnet feminists" (we all know who we mean) seem strangely unaware about some of life's grittier realities - but Mumsnet is a fairly middle-class site overall, so it's not really surprising.

The feminist section would be a lot more accessible if a few posters took a long holiday.

HRH - fair enough. :)

Lying - why do you assume people are being submissive? Plenty of recently outed feminists use the MN boards. Perhaps they just want help from better-informed/educated/read people to help them articulate their ideas in their own minds...

'Perhaps they just want help from better-informed/educated/read people to help them articulate their ideas in their own minds...'

You do get a lot of book recommendations if you ask questions.
I have several texts now by feminists that weren't writing when I used to read feminist stuff back in the late 70s and early 80s.

thankyou Carmin
thankyou Garlic-
the group hasnt started yet[thankyou for asking]as ive been really ill.
but im back on form again now so im hoping to be sorting it out this week.
yeah-one morning i was eating my cornflakes and minding my own buissness and someone was reading the "sun"out loud-and i realised id become the "underclass"-bloody bastards
never mind-my philosephy is-"take the piss back"!!
yep-it is easier to change down than up-mind you-ive never been up
yeah-mumsnet is more middle-class overall-but that dont matter does it-peoples people eh!
we all cry and laugh the same.
i hope you are well garlic

..... And finally, it's looking like DSK was innocent all along and the maid was a chancer - but even when he's completely vindicated ( which he will be ) some feminists will refuse point blank to accept it.
That's why sensible debate is impossible.

My pleasure sparky - you have a sense of humour and perspective.
You're very easy to talk to.

Personally I do try and avoid the feminist board (though occasionally get sucked back in) for the reasons above.

There have been a fair few occasions where I've seen posters who have a different viewpoint being told that they aren't intelligent, or they aren't bothering to think, or are just plain stupid.

I've seen plenty of posts (since the feminism section was created) where posters have been told that they are wrong to do certain activities as it is somehow giving power to the patriarchy.

When there are so many posters who do not like venturing into the feminism section surely that says something?

I'm sure to many in the feminism section what it seems to say is that too many posters are enslaved to the patriarchy, or anti-feminist, etc.

Back to the OP though. I do not get why it is such an awful thing for a woman not to identify with feminism. Or to identify more with being a egalitarian. Surely as long as they are doing what they can to make things more equal it doesn't matter which group they are a part of.

Sorry to hear you've been ill, Sparky. Glad you're feeling better; hope it all goes well for you!

Can't wait for the papers to come up with an even lower word than "underclass"! If we go down far enough, we might start popping out the other side in New Zealand

ha ha ha ha-yeah Garlic-mind you"they wish"!!

Empusa-
[when there is so many posters who....................surely that says something?]
well-yes it does and its worrying isnt it.
i think its a sad day when women are reluctant to talk/debate/have a oppinion with other women.
i feel though[and this is only my oppinion]that the feminist section is a bit diffrent from the rest of the board.
for me it certainly feels like a bit of a sanctuary.
i talk about stuff i cant in rl.
i also spend time disscussing things that piss me off greatly and has led me to being a feminist in the first place.
yeah-things can get a bit heated but i feel that this would happen anywhere where people have got strong views/pissed off/hurt/angry.
as for people being called stupid/or they arent intelligent-
well-yes i can see youre point and its wrong.
im hardly educated at all but this doesnt make me stupid.[well-not most of the time]
theres all diffrent kinds of intelligence and it would be a unintelligent person that would call someone else unintelligent!!!
so-dont let anyone else calling you unintelligent/stupid put you off.
we can all learn/hear each other if we let ourselves.

sorry Empusa-when i said"so dont let anyone else calling you................"
i didnt mean you specifficcally or that you have been called unintelligent ect
i meant "to anyone in general"!

No problem sparky I didn't read your post that way :)

I'm glad that you find it a sanctuary. Just wish it was the same for more people.

There have been a fair few occasions where I've seen posters who have a different viewpoint being told that they aren't intelligent, or they aren't bothering to think, or are just plain stupid.

This almost always happens. If you do something they think wrong it is assumed that you 'blindly followed', there is no understanding that you read the same things and came to different conclusions- because if you had thought- then you must all come to the same conclusion. because there is only one conclusion to be made.