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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to help someone to live after my death?

413 replies

dolldaggabuzzbuzz · 29/06/2011 13:31

I am on the organ donor register. I am willing to donate all my organs to those who may need them in the event of my untimely death.

However, if the new system of presumed consent is brought in, I am opting out. I can't explain why I feel like I do about this. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
SevenAgainstThebes · 29/06/2011 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

oranges · 29/06/2011 14:40

I am not sure about presumed consent. I dont fully believe that we won't get to a system where, say a murderous paedophle is brought in for treatment and someone doesn't decide that it may be better to let him die to allow more "worthy" recipients to receive his organs. I realise I sound like a loon.

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:40

Again Crapola I have a relative waiting for a transplant,she has CF,and she's against presumed consent.Her situation hasn't changed her mind.

slhilly · 29/06/2011 14:40

I don't know when Spain introduced presumed consent, but that paper dates from 2005

RandomSloth · 29/06/2011 14:40

YABU. Going further, I've had two elective sections for medical reasons on the NHS. Without those operations I'd quite possibly be dead now, as would dd1 or (if I'd survived dd1) dd2.

From a moral perspective I personally see organ donation as a quid pro quo not just for receiving an organ if I need one, but for any other treatment I may need from the state. I wouldn't go so far as to make it compulsory for all on those grounds, but I do view people who won't donate for reasons other than genuinely religious as very selfish.

As for opting out on principle op, wtf?! You do realise that people, real people, actually die for want of organs?

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:41

Well donating blood and organs at the moment isn't as widely advertised as it could be,so I've no reason to believe that they're going to wide advertise the opt out system.

And yet again what of those who are unable to advocate for themselves?

CrapolaDeVille · 29/06/2011 14:43

LetThere....Let's hope she doesn't die upholding her views as that's the real cost of such a low sign up.

scurryfunge · 29/06/2011 14:44

SeveAgainstThebes, why would stating a fact be naive and simplistic?

CrapolaDeVille · 29/06/2011 14:44

Holy shit....LetThere....I did not mean it to read like that!! Sorry.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 14:44

Which people who are unable to advocate for themselves? If they are sectioned/under a LPA then the decision will be made for them, as all other legal/medical decisions are. Children will be advocated for by their parents, as they already are.

fedupofnamechanging · 29/06/2011 14:45

Well the people like you, who genuinely don't mind who gets their organs, could go ahead and leave them to whoever the medical staff want to give them to.

I, otoh, could tick a box on a form saying no padophiles/rapists/murderers and people who refuse to donate.

I don't really view it as a gift, more as something I wouldn't need anymore, so I'm just passing it on. It's right to help others live if you can. But, given the choice, I'd rather help someone who will also be willing to help another person in this way. I'd also actively hate the idea of helping certain people in society.

Sassybeast · 29/06/2011 14:45

For anyone who buys into the theory that any patient in ICU is viewed as fair game for harvesting donor organs, a view often sensationalised by television 'dramas' and 'soaps', there are very clear, very complex diagnostic criteria in place.
A patient has to have a clinical diagnosis of brain stem death in order to be considered as an organ donor. It's some years since I worked in ICU, but at a rough guess, I'd say that less than 5% of the patients I looked after had that diagnosis. ICU doctors in particular go to extreme lengths to preserve the life of the patient in front of them. It is idiotic to suggest that there is a culture of letting one patient 'die' in order to save 5 others.
For anyone interested in the facts rather that the fiction, there is a myriad of info easily found online. This is one of the clearest clinical guides :

www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_4009696

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 14:45

How can you honestly disagree? You really believe that someone on an organ donation register who (for example) has abandoned his children, cheated on his wife, maybe committed fraud, is a better person than someone who has been a loving family man, been generous and kind to friends and done years and years of charity work, and maybe even been a blood donor but chooses not to give his organs.

Really?

If you are right that family wishes wouldn't count for anything if presumed consent were to happen, then I without a doubt would opt out. The way my bereaved husband and children would feel in the even of my death would be more important to me than anything else. I'm sure that I will be called selfish for that, but if selfish is putting the feelings of my bereaved family first, then so be it. You wouldn't want my organs anyway.

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:47

You see to me it's an all or nothing scenario.
You either help in good spirit by donating them or you don't. You shouldn't get to decide who gets them,or we'll have a scenario with some loons wanting to deny homosexuals,non Christians/Muslims/Hindus,unwed mothers etc their organs.The system can't work like that,it's a ridiculous idea.

goinnowhere · 29/06/2011 14:47

My earlier suggestion about only those on the register receiving organs was a little tongue in cheek. More seriously, before bringing in presumed consent, could there not be a drive to get people on the register. I've never been aware of one. There are many opportunities, in the doctors' surgery, at antenatal clinics, opticians, in Boots! For many people it is a simple decision, and just needs a nudge in the right direction. It would take a few extra minutes, and some people might feel unhappy about being put on the spot, but for others it could be an easy opportunity.

scurryfunge · 29/06/2011 14:47

Those who are unable to advocate for themselves would have the same protection in law as they would do normally surely?

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 14:48

Of course I/society would want your organs, if needed and suitable. They aren't contaminated with your thoughts. They are cells. Saying childish things like "if selfish is putting the feelings of my bereaved family first, then so be it. You wouldn't want my organs anyway" just proves how ill thought out your position is.

RandomSloth · 29/06/2011 14:48

But oranges, said convicted paedophile can opt out if concerned. And on the current system you'd have the same concern if he was on the register.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 14:49

Anyway going out now, not running away from the argument.

CrapolaDeVille · 29/06/2011 14:49

Bubble....What are the family going to do with the organs? Eat them? Burn them? or bury them? Rather than give another family the gift of life?

Can you imagine looking at the family with a slim hope that their child will live and then being refused because another family want to keep a dead body in tact?

I think knowing that a family member gave someone life after their death would be incredible for the healing process.

cantpooinpeace · 29/06/2011 14:49

If you're against donation you'd make it a priority to opt out.

If Drs started bumping folk of who were on the register patterns would form quickly and it'd be picked up straight away (Shipman made sure of this) but this wouldn't happen. It's ridiculous and insulting to suggest it.

I work in this field and NOK do refuse organ donation for family members on the register more often than you think. We respect their wishes but it's completely frustrating and sad :(.

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:50

I know of people who wouldn't really be able to make an informed decision,but who don't have a legal guardian,LPA in place. So what happens to them?

LittleMissFlustered · 29/06/2011 14:50

bubblecoral

My body, my legal choice made whilst of sound mind. What the hell gives somebody who is probably incapable of thinking without emotion the right to undermine what is, to all intents and purposes, my last wishes? Funerals are there for those left behind. Organs are just bits of flesh and sinew. They're meaningless in the general scheme of things. If they're bothered about my wish to help others carry on with their lives, then I would be sad to be related to them. If this ridiculously outdated system is to remain. The rights of the individual need to be protected, especially in death when there are few people to champion them.

Memories matter. Not the body.

slhilly I suspect we would get along famously. Good for you for having found a rational way around a usually irrational stumbling block. I'm not Jewish, but have a few friend's who are. Will file your info for if it ever becomes a topic of conversation Brew

scurryfunge · 29/06/2011 14:51

I agree that we cannot and should not choose who gets the organs. That defeats the object of the NHS.

bumblingbovine · 29/06/2011 14:53