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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to help someone to live after my death?

413 replies

dolldaggabuzzbuzz · 29/06/2011 13:31

I am on the organ donor register. I am willing to donate all my organs to those who may need them in the event of my untimely death.

However, if the new system of presumed consent is brought in, I am opting out. I can't explain why I feel like I do about this. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
Sapphirefling · 29/06/2011 14:06

You are perfectly entitled to opt out of donating. As long as you also opt out of receiving - either for yourself or your child. And then when you(or your child) are dead for lack of a donor organ, you can excert all the control you like over your corpse or that of your child.

Because THAT is the reality of it. Life and death.

thumbwitch · 29/06/2011 14:07

LTBR - I think before they bring in the opt-out system, that will have to be thrashed out. I fully support people who want to opt out if they never wanted to opt in, iyswim - for cultural, spiritual or whatever reasons - so I'm sure they will make sure that enough info is out there. It should be taught in schools anyway - and there should be some kind of age-limit on it too, probably (although where you'd set the limit, I don't know)

Of course, not all organs are suitable for donation anyway - if you have any kind of infectious disease or long-term degenerative disorder, or if you're an alcoholic, old and decrepit, or a drug user - then your organs are likely to be unusable (except corneas in some of those cases).

It's not going to be a massive organ harvest. There aren't going to be Igors standing outside every ICU waiting to appropriate the best bits to "upgrade".

freybean · 29/06/2011 14:07

YABU

Haudyerwheesht · 29/06/2011 14:08

I tell you what - I have watched a close family member trek to dialysis 3 times a week for years, iv e watched the life drain out of them and the worry it causes to them and their family. They're lucky - they have dialysis to keep them alive unlike if you have heart or liver failure for example.

I've watched that same person get a new kidney and I've watched their life change beyond recognition - they're allowed to dream again, to think about the future.

So, yanbu to not donate your organs, yabu to not agree with consent.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 14:08

I don't understand the "erosion of trust" argument against it either. Why on earth would any doctor be happy to allow one patient to snuff it so that their heart or whatever could be used for another? They just wouldn't think like that. If that were the case, since we already have organ transplants, every patient on life support would simply be viewed as a potential source of organs already. They aren't.

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:09

Again that notion utterly infuriates me,Karma. If they start getting choosy about who can have my organs,beyond the usual compatability,need and fitness requirements then I may well opt out. I want my organs to go to the person most in need of them,again I don't give a toss if they're on the list or not.

Besides what if person A who needs a liver and who is on the list is a horrible person who makes their family's lives completely miserable,and who contributes little to others,whereas person B who also needs a liver but who isn't on the list, is a much nicer person who volunteers and contributes to their community and family. Which of the two is the most worthy then in that situation?

scurryfunge · 29/06/2011 14:10

Agree, Georgimama,
It is very insulting to doctors to assume they wouldn't "try very hard" to keep someone alive in the hope of scooping up some organs.

itisnearlysummer · 29/06/2011 14:10

Actually, I don't think it is being a control freak to care about what happens to your body after you die.

I'm on the register but I don't think I actually agree with organ donation. But I'm on it, because I suspect I'm being a bit U by thinking like that. And I'm pretty sure that if my DCs ever needed an organ I'd change my mind pretty quickly and think it was the most amazing thing ever.

So, in the spirit of not expecting anyone else to do anything I wouldn't be prepared to do myself, I am on it. And I think I would make the 'right' choice if was ever required to make that decision on someone else's behalf.

But for me presumed consent is a no no.

CatPower · 29/06/2011 14:10

I agree with you OP, enough isn't being done to encourage blood and organ donation. The first time I gave blood I had friends look at me like I'd grown an extra nose, saying things like "why the hell would you do that? Doesn't it hurt?" Confused

childfreeatm · 29/06/2011 14:11

I agree with you on that one Georgimama

Haudyerwheesht · 29/06/2011 14:11

Correction:

Yabu to not agree with assumed consent

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 14:11

Wyrd, I think if I had a close relative in intensive care then there would certainly be a fear that the doctors wouldn't try as hard as they possibly could to save them because they knew of a patient that could benefit from the organs.

You would hope that that would never be the case, but it's not a completely irrational fear, and it's one that somebody with a relative in intensive care doesn't need to beging to even think about.

The fact is, that even if you aren't on the register when you die and your organs are useable, the doctors will ask if they can be harvested anyway, so I'm not convinced that the numbers of donors will go up drastically enough to justify reducing anyones trust in their doctor.

quimbledonsemi · 29/06/2011 14:12

A presumption is being made either way though isn't it. Why should the 'norm' in this day and age be that people's perfectly good organs rot or are burned with them after death. As long as you have the option to opt out then by not doing that you ARE consenting to donating your organs and if it increases the number available because some people who are happy to donate would never have got round to registering then all the better.

razzlebathbone · 29/06/2011 14:12

Although it makes sense and I agree that I would likely feel differently should I or a loved one need an organ, it doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I don't agree with having to opt in to have control over our bodies, dead or not.

And I have never encountered anyone being smug about having a donor card.

TheOriginalFAB · 29/06/2011 14:13

Yes, YABU and if that is how you feel I also think you should refuse the offer of an organ should you need one. You are on the organ donor list yet would opt out if it became compulsory (which I think it should) so it sounds like you are having a tantrum about being made to do something when actually all you have to do it is fill a form in and say no thanks.

TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 29/06/2011 14:14

Georgie - actually, my husband genuinely believes that! He says he would never give consent for my or our childrens organs to be used because he says that he feels if they know you will donate, they are thinking of the number of people that your organs could go to. Hmm sacrifice one to save 5 or 6. Hmm

No matter how many times I tell him that is a great big load of sweaty hairy bollocks, and get angry with him and tell him that he would have NO right to refuse because I would want it, he's still afraid of it. and I think that is something that needs working on. Because he's not the only one. I think that fear is something a lot of people have and they need to change that.

TrilllianAstra · 29/06/2011 14:15

I can't think of any logical reason why anyone would not want to be an organ donor. The only two possible reasons are:
paranoia - you think doctors will choose to take your organs when they could have saved you
superstition - you think that it will in some way be bad for you to have your organs removed after you are dead

I fully support the idea of presumed consent, as long as everyone is made aware that it is their responsibility to opt out if they are paranoid or superstitious

FooffyShmoofferschinhair · 29/06/2011 14:15

When my Dad was on the transplant list for new lungs (he didn't live long enough to get any), had a pair become available I wouldn't have hesitated to accept them for him. It seems an odd concept therefore that if someone were willing to accept an organ to save themselves or a loved one that they would not wholeheartedly give back.

There's a certain childlike stubbornness to the idea that ' I'll give them but you can't presume you can have them'. and the comparison to the bank taking your money is a bit daft.

yabu

LittleMissFlustered · 29/06/2011 14:17

If they refuse to go with a new and, to my mind better, system they need to seriously overhaul the current one. I detest the though that my family have the right to overrule my wishes about donation. All my bits and bobs are up for grabs. I've signed and said it's a go. Who gives my parents/partner/child the right to stamp on that? If you are on the register it should be protected, regardless of the whims of wailing family who can't think straight (which I understand to a degree) and are thinking only of their own needs and wants, not those of the deceased.

That said. Presumed consent is the best option.

quimbledonsemi · 29/06/2011 14:17

I also think it is insulting to doctors think they would do anything other than their best for a patient in the hope of being able to use their organs but if that is a worry then perhaps people's organ donation status could be confidential until after death.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that you shouldn't be able to receive and organ id you don't opt in/opt out but I would think it very hypocritical if someone was happy to receive but not donate.

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 14:18

Seeker, it's fine by me if that one opinion I hold makes a stranger honestly believ that I'm awful, but you didn't answer the valid points I made because you can't, the information hasn't been decided yet. To me and my descision, those things are important.

FWIW, if my family needed a transplant I may well change my mind and register, because I believe in giving back if you take. But the fact that one person has reservations about having their organs taken out of their body after death and one person doesn't, does not give one of those people a moral high ground, and doesn not make one a better person based on that alone. It really doesn't, and if you believe otherwise you need to open your mind.

LetThereBeRock · 29/06/2011 14:20

I can think of other reasons Trillian,but I don't really care why people don't want to donate,so long as they've made an informed decision. It's their right,and I don't think it's going to help doctors to be seen as professional Burke and Hares.

And are we going to have scenarios where the bodies of loved ones are torn from grieving relatives who knew that their loved ones didn't want their organs to be taken? How far will it go?

scurryfunge · 29/06/2011 14:22

But LTBR, if the deceased person didn't want their organs to be taken then would have opted out.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 14:23

They don't ask about organ donation when people are still alive, Magnificent. He does know that, doesn't he?

Actually Bubble if you have one person being prepared to do something for the sake of altruism, and one person being prepared to do it out of a sense of payback, I'd say the first person quite clearly is a better person.

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 14:23

LittleMissFlustered, would you really not care if your family were upset at the thought of a part of you living on inside someone else when you were gone and they were the ones suffering the grief?

I would think that the families wishes should come before that of the dead person, because they are the ones that have to live with it and know what it feels like.

And that is the way it already happens, so I don't see why it should be changed tbh.