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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to help someone to live after my death?

413 replies

dolldaggabuzzbuzz · 29/06/2011 13:31

I am on the organ donor register. I am willing to donate all my organs to those who may need them in the event of my untimely death.

However, if the new system of presumed consent is brought in, I am opting out. I can't explain why I feel like I do about this. Am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
JamieAgain · 29/06/2011 18:04

You hear a lot of people saying "they can have everything but my eyes" and we just accept that like it makes any sense. Strange

TheOriginalFAB · 29/06/2011 18:07

It used to be the case that if a person had a donor card and died, his/her relatives were asked if they agreed and if not the organs weren't used. I don't know if that is still the case and how can it be right on any level?

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 18:07

I am firmly in favour of organ donation and I am a Christian. If there is a God (which I believe there is, but frankly by the time I am in a position to know either way I won't know about it if I am wrong) I very much doubt that He is likely to object to people having given away parts of their bodies for the love of their fellow man. so I don't understand the superstitious/religious objections any more than an atheist does.

verylittlecarrot · 29/06/2011 18:10

To answer your question off the top of my head suzi...

I can imagine someone completing an opt-out form and it getting lost in the post, lost in a department, mis-typed into a database, or simply missing at a crucial moment due to some other administrative error.

And I can well imagine someone not getting around to it before meeting an untimely end.

This second reason is the reason why we have a shortage of organs now. People on this thread are saying "if you feel this strongly about it then you should tick the box", but we already know that despite most people wanting to donate, despite lives being at stake, many, many people are currently NOT ticking the opt-in box! Human behaviour suggests we all procrastinate taking action, even on important decisions. It's happening now, and it will continue to happen in the future.

If I want people to respect my wishes about my body, home, children's futures, money when I'm gone, I must respect other people's wishes too. Not agree with, or like, but abide by.

SmethwickBelle · 29/06/2011 18:16

I'm an organ donor but it really is up to each individual what happens to their body after they die. I have a big problem with presumed consent, it feels wrong, morally.

There shouldn't be paperwork to assert the ownership of your own body and to guarantee its intactness after your death. That should be a given.

Like I say, I am an organ donor of the "take the lot" category so its not that I am squeamish about it personally.

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 18:20

JamieAgain, I find your position shocking, and it makes me grateful that those around me woud respect my wishes in the event of my death, even if they didn't agree with them.

How can you feel comfortable saying that you would over ride your husbands/mothers/childs wish not to donate if they died and you were asked?

Everything that you, and others have said about feeling strongly enough to opt out, could be said just as easily in reverse.

If they feel strongly enough that they want to donate, pick up a card in any chemist and tell your family.

If they feel strongly enough that they want to donate, they can tick a box when they apply for a driving licence and tell their family.

And everyone seems to be missing the point that if your die and your organs are suitable, your name will be looked for on the register and if it's not there, your family will be asked if they think you would want to donate anyway. I think this works fine, because relatives will either make a descision that they are comfortable with, or they do what you would have wanted. Surely for a family that have just lost someone close to them, that's the best thing?

JamieAgain · 29/06/2011 18:21

sorry you are shocked. It's how I feel.

GwendolineMaryLacey · 29/06/2011 18:26

So what you'll get with an presumed consent is a lot of people opting out of doing something that they actually are quite happy to do, because they strongly object to the way it is being done. There would be no way to donate without automatically supporting a system that you violently object to.

knobbysEx · 29/06/2011 18:34

YABU. As WELL you know....
Though I do agree....BlushConfused

StealthPolarBear · 29/06/2011 18:37

Surely givena bit of organisation there are plenty of opportunities to opt out

  • when applying for a drivers licence
  • when applying for further education
  • every time you visit the doctor / dentist

The options would need to be "presumed consent/opted out/explicit consent given" with the question only asked if "presumed consent" is against the person's name. The system would record each time the question was asked.

StealthPolarBear · 29/06/2011 18:39

yes I don't understand the eyes thing

Northernlurker · 29/06/2011 18:39

I have no time for people who cannot let go of their own bodies enough to be willing to help someone else LIVE after their own death.
I work every day with people who are waiting for transplant. There are simply no words to describe what a gift it is. Organs which are suitable for transplant being buried or cremated is an absolutely disgusting waste of human potential. People die waiting for what some of you are too selfish to give up even though you don't need it. Organ donation should be our default position. It should just happen. Our selfish, paranoid and feeble 'wants' need to be put aside.

StealthPolarBear · 29/06/2011 18:40

in fact doesn't EVERYONE get an NI Number when they';re 16? Presumably with the age of compulsary education rising to 18 they'll start getting it then? So make it part of that process

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 18:43

Or, just make it part of the process to opt in? That way there would be no risk at all of someone's body being decapitated against their wishes.

KurriKurri · 29/06/2011 18:45

I totally agree with Northernlurker

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 29/06/2011 18:46

Is it possible, if one has already had a transplanted organ - a heart, for example - that has been successful, for that particular organ to be transplanted again when that person dies?

The 'presumed consent' is never going to sit well with many people. I think most people would like to take the decision themselves what happens to their bodies when they die. I think a better system could be to ask the question as part of GP surgeries (so it's on your medical records) - or even as part of the Census. People have to answer that question then, they can't avoid it, they can answer it and then forget about it.

bubblecoral · 29/06/2011 18:46

Northern, I realise it must be very frustrating to you if you see people on a daily basis deperately waiting for organs, but if I want to be selfish, paranoid or feeble, or to just do what I want with my own body you should respect that right.

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 18:47

They don't cut donors heads off Hmm

The current system doesn't work. There are too many people dying for a lack of donor organs. The circumstances in which people die such that their organs are useable are so limited. If people feel strongly against donation, they can and will opt out. If they don't feel strongly enough, or can't be arsed, they are in. The can't be arsed brigade shouldn't be allowed to let people die for the lack of an organ. Simple as that.

JamieAgain · 29/06/2011 18:48

aaarg we will never agree. You say selfish like it's a good thing

JamieAgain · 29/06/2011 18:49

that was to bubblecoral.

I basically believe in the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Opt out if you don't

Georgimama · 29/06/2011 18:50

if I want to be selfish, paranoid or feeble, or to just do what I want with my own body you should respect that right.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU WILL BE DEAD

You do get that don't you? Actually dead when and if this decision needs to be made? And your body of no further use to you?

KurriKurri · 29/06/2011 18:50

I have trouble with the concept of ownership after dead. Once I die I will no longer own anything, I will be a piece of waste matter, to be disposed of in the most efficient way possible. How can a dead body's 'wishes' possibly in any way be considered before the chance of saving a living persons life?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 29/06/2011 18:56

What is the reasoning behind the Organ Donation's selection of 'corneas' as a possibly separate body part? I'm curious about that. Why the 'eyes' as opposed to any other part?

JamieAgain · 29/06/2011 18:59

Lying - I presume it's to make it clear that corneas are used. Maybe people din't know that. But it's a shame in a way because people are superstitious about the eyes and opt out of this.

Cymar · 29/06/2011 19:00

Personally speaking, if a person who has died is carrying a donor card and is also on the register then the deceased's wishes should be paramount and override those of the family. If I was to refuse DH's organs for transplant I'd feel I'd be condeming some very sick people to an early death.

Knowing that I had the means to keep someone alive and refused to do so would be totally unforgiveable IMO.