to think America is a frightening place to be a woman right now?

[BornSicky]

Pregnant women facing murder charges

This is bullying at a nightmarish level.

I find it foul and despicable that women are being villified in such a way. How did the Christian right-wing become so powerful?

Truly, truly scary.

How can these bad laws (including the new "inspections" (read closures) of abortion clinics in Kansas) come to be passed? How can they be stopped?

Oh and don't me started on the use of "America" to describe the US. I know this is not a conscious thing on behalf of those who use it to ignore the overwhelming majority of people and land that don't form part of the US, but that's how it comes across to many people who also inhabit the American Continent but don't live in the US.
Parts of America also include Nicaragua, Brazil and Chile. Parts of North America include Mexico and Canada as well as the US.
If we're going to be against generalisations I think I would add the misuse of the continent's name to describe one part of it on my list of things to avoid.

Sorry crosspot with Sticky.
I agree; I am sad to see that the UK is also suffering from the rightwing backlash against women. I used to use the UK SS an example of a place where abortion was not contraversial. I may need to stop using it very soon

Cat very good point about the term 'America'. I actually don't usually use it for that very reason but 'everyone else was'!!

Ok... i'll hold my hands up for that one!

North America or USA it is!

What's that about SS and abortion cat?

in response to the OP, no more frightening that a hundred other countries where abortion is not permitted, and women are stoned for being raped etc

As an American myself, I do find it more frightening that it's happening here. I would like to think the US is a more enlightened place and people than a country where a woman is stoned to death for being raped. That's absolutely savage.

Well, even North America is, technically, incorrect Born, as that includes Mexico and Canada.

It really should be US or USA. Or The States!

What Panda just said. It's absolutely horrific that it's happening in the US.

Not that it's not horrific elsewhere, but it is more horrific that it's happening in the so called home of the brave and land of the free.

You see, I'd expect everyone to call out anyone on racist behaviour or utterances, not just black people... but maybe I'm a bit funny like that

Yes try and turn my comment around very clever, except my point was ignorant comments were made about America and I don't have to defend them. It isn't my job. But yes, you are right everyone should be upset about racisim or prejudice so maybe you should be the one complaining about the anti american bull shit being spouted too.

This is nothing new - I did my dissertation on US treatment of pregnant drug and alcohol abusers when I was doing my degree back in 1997!

lola do you have anything to say about the article in the OP though, the thing that we are talking about?

What do you think of cat and tee's comments about the inaccurate use of "america" to describe the USA? I think they are right. To say "america" when you mean the USA is to lump millions of people in with the USA when they do not live there. That could also be described as, um, ignorant, if anyone was inclined to do so.

Um I already said I disagreed with the law and then said what I thought was probably the best way for British citizens on this thread to go about protesting what they feel is a human rights violation if they actually want anything done about it and don't just want a forum for whining

If you wish to ignore my previous posts, that's fine but don't make me rewrite them please.

I also know what country I am from and while I agree that people from the united states would be the best way of phrasing and better than Americans I think you know who I am discussing. And considering we all say dc insted of children I didn't realize short hand was frowned on.

Oh and one last thing, I keep responding to the fact that no one is saying the comments I quoted earlier were wrong. That's why I have gone off topic.

They aren't wrong Lola. Just not the majority of postings.

And I am American I lived in The States.

I did not live in America.

Your advice on this topic was to write to our govt about it (who don't have the power to change anything in the US) or to write to your government about it (like they are going to take any notice of someone writing from Britain to tell them they are wrong) and above all to stop talking about it on the internet.

You seem to be desperate to stop us talking about this topic.

I was just discussing this thread and the topic with DH, and he brought to my attention a new abortion law that I knew nothing about. Apparently, when a woman goes for an abortion here she is legally required to undergo a sonogram to view a picture of the fetus and listen to the heartbeat first. Article here.

On the one hand, you could say that this is an effort to make sure that all women having abortions are thoroughly educated about what they are doing. On the other, you could call it a monumental guilt-trip for having a legal medical procedure. I'm fairly sure that women having abortions are aware of what the procedure does and are able to make their own personal decisions about it.

I also think it's interesting that DH, who does not agree with abortion and sees it as killing a baby, feels very strongly that the "depraved heart" and "chemical endangerment" laws are very wrong. If it is legal to have an abortion, it should not be illegal to unintentionally end the life of the fetus by taking drugs, etc. Termination is termination, he says.

Orange hat: SS meant as. Sorry I left caps lock on and the phone obligingly decided that I didn't mean AS but SS.

DNPanda, I think it is 2) disguised as 1). And also an attempt to make sure that the women sees the embryo/fetus to be aborted and decides that no-actually, she couldn't terminate that litle-icky thing on the screen (probably with the help of the sonographer who -if s/he wanted- could use it as a opportunity to talk about murdering innocent babies while performing the procedure).
Before you jump on me and say this would be unprofessional. Well yes I know and I think a proper professional would be able to keep her/his personal opinions to her/himself. However, in my experience of health professionals (and social workers) in Mexico would seem to suggest that a good number of them think their morals trumps the legal right of the women every time and will use all situations to dissuade even traumatised 13 year old rape victims not to go ahead with an abortion.

I agree, I think the intention ofthat law is to "talk them out of it". Like I said, I imagine the women having abortions are aware of what they are doing and have made the choice to do it.

I would hope that the medical professionals doing the sonograms would keep their personal opinions to themselves but I doubt that would be the norm.

I agree that it is option 2 disguised as option 1. That's what I was trying to say in my convoluted way.

DNP I agree that forcing women to have ultrasound scans and see the foetus and listen to it prior to an abortion is an appalling thing to do.

Women are aware of what an abortion is, for crying out loud. This law is about guilt and punishment.

I agree, it's the US not "America". So the generalisations made earlier on were even more vast.
My only point was really that people who meet me or see me and know I'm "American" / from the US to please know that not all of us support such ludicrous laws and ideas. I'm a nice person and I don't want this sort of thing to represent me in any way.
To the poster who asked what you could do to support those of is who don't support such horrific things - just be kind to us and don't assume we are all the same

I've lived here a long time but still always nearly apologise when I admit my nationality

HavePatience: yes, that was also the point I was trying to make.
And also to sympathise with you: my experience of being foreigner living in Spain and Mexico suggests to me that -probably- people tend to see you and what you do as representative of all things from your country of origin and also, expect you to know about/be in favour of all the things that happen in your country of origin.
Plus generalising about people from other countries in an offensive way is also probably to be found in all countries, I think.

*us not is

Oh yes cat, I agree it happens everywhere. It just seems to happen on MN a lot. But, it's just an internet forum

Shocking and horrifying.

I feel for that 15 year old. I wonder what sort of life she was leading to end up like this and why the buck seems to stop with her, not with the adults who were legally responsible for her. There's a very good reason why the age of consent is older than 15 and foistering so much responsibility on a young girl like this to use against her is dreadful.

Like previous posters have said, this is clearly the law being twisted around to suit those wanting to prosecute.