to think America is a frightening place to be a woman right now?

[BornSicky]

Pregnant women facing murder charges

This is bullying at a nightmarish level.

I find it foul and despicable that women are being villified in such a way. How did the Christian right-wing become so powerful?

Truly, truly scary.

How can these bad laws (including the new "inspections" (read closures) of abortion clinics in Kansas) come to be passed? How can they be stopped?

I lived in a very redneck area. Never again

Reason number 28 for why I would NEVER move back there.

This sort of law is pushed by the radical religious right because they can't get the abortion law repealed. It shows the underlying debate about an unborn baby being alive or not which is at the centre of the pro/anti abortion debate. I find much of what happens in US society these days pretty shocking. The religious right and the left are getting more polarised every day and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the US is heading for civil war. Seriously. I am soooooo glad I moved to the UK 9 years ago!

What a terrifying article. Very hard to believe.

With this sort of thing my DH always reminds me that the states in the US make their own laws on the whole and have their own flavour and ideas and so on. So with this sort of thing to look at the state rather than thinking the whole of the US has gone bananas IYSWIM.

I suppose it's like the fact I was shocked to find out that abortion is illegal in N Ireland. I had no idea. I assumed as a part of GB we would have the same laws. Not so.

So like that. What one bunch in the south are doing doesn't reflect across teh entire huge place IYSWIM.

Am I the only one quite @ someone on the thread having lottery millions?!

Make sure it doesn't happen here. It could so easily with the influence religious groups have. It seems like no one can do anything without asking a church leader how they feel about it.

We've just had some friends who live in America cmoe to sstay - and were discussing this and similar stories. They say the US is more like two seperate countries - the coast, "and the rubbish in the middle". They're teachers in California.

tee2072- American maternity laws have always confused me when put alongside of stories like this. Do they care about the health/wellbeing of the mother and baby/foetus or not? Ditto when there's arguments against abortion and against contraception.

cath I agree with EricNorthmansMistress. This law was originally (supposedly) designed to protect pregnant women from abuse by their spouses, but is no being used against the most vulnerable women who are also denied access to healthcare, abortions and contraceptions. They are probably also denied access to drug or alcohol rehabilitation programmes too, I shouldn't wonder.

A woman is NOT an incubator. It's that kind of reductionism that leads to the kind of bad laws highlighted above.

I expect the law and the state to protect its individuals, not to persecute them.

onagar I couldn't agree more! Religious leaders should only be consulted by their community, not given open platforms to proselytise at everyone else. They are not the moral barometers of society anymore.

Every US State has different laws, and the Deep South has always been a bit feudal.

I suspect they are fed up with coke-heads having babies, but this isn't the way to go about dissuading them.

"a bit feudal"... yup, that's one way to describe slavery and the American Civil War

"RobF- probably quite a few of each."

According to wikipedia, 93,031 women. 3% of the prison population. So to say that men in America "can do no wrong" is utterly ridiculous, regardless of what you think about this story.

RobF the point earlier was that of a law designed to protect pregnant women from violent partners, only one man has been charged vs 300 women.

That male behaviour while TTC can have adverse effects on the foetus but there seems to be no law to cover that, while women's behaviour is now potentially an imprisonable offence.

That the mainly white, mainly male people who make the laws in the US do not seem to have women's interests at the forefront, but they don't seem to mind what men do, in these situations. It seems that men who do things that adversely affect women, pregnant women and foetuses are not being focussed on at all. So if a man is an addict and conceives a child, that's fine. If a woman is an addict and conceives a child she can go to prison.

If a man is an addict and concieves a child, the woman can have an abortion. If a woman is an addict and concieves a child, she has the choice of whether or not to the have the baby, regardless of what the father wants.

If a man is forcing a woman to have a baby, that is a crime and he should be jailed.

Women legally have control over their own fertility.

It says upthread that abortion is illegal in missippi.

Anyway.

Are you saying that if a woman gets pregnant by an addict, she should automatically have an abortion? And that if she doesn't and has a miscarriage or stillbirth due to his crappo sperm, she should be held responsible?

Your thoughts on this are unclear.

You seem to support the idea that a 15yo girl who has had a stillbirth should go to prison, is that right?

You support the idea that a 15yo child, who has been raped according to the law on statutory rape, and has suffered the trauma of stillbirth, should go to prison for the rest of her life? Because she took cocaine, even though it has not been shown that the stillbirth and the cocaine were linked?

You think that when a woman is pregnant she loses rights over her own body, to do with it as she chooses?

You think that women who are pregnant and attempt suicide should similarly be put in prison?

I think you would be very at home in the US south.

As a very liberal person who has chosen to live the states, what scares me is the fact that like minded people would rather leave than stay and fight. I have marched with Planned Parenthood in Philadelphia and we had support down every street we turned.
Running away won't help, stay and fight people.

And RobF have my first ever

I am American, from New England (Northeast), now living in the UK. However, most people that I know, where I am from, find this law and this story and similar stories just as shocking as you do. Different states have different laws and the "deep south" is definitely a completely different place to where I am from. America is a big place with a lot of different views, perspectives and laws. Please do not paint all "Americans" with the same brush.
I personally find this article shocking. What happens in one state or even a few states does not represent everyone.

I agree with the points on this thread and think what is happening in Mississippi is horrifying.
I find the fact that people from abroad allow this sort of thing to represent all Americans a bit narrow minded, if I'm honest.
Where I am from is nothing like this. I'm not in any way defending "America" because I do realise the many faults (healthcare...don't get me started).

But I would hope that walking around in the UK as an American, people don't automatically judge me and assume that I would stand for or support what is happening in Mississippi. Or any of the other sweeping generalisations about "Americans" on this thread.

OrangeHat I applaud everything you say.

RobF it's interesting that your last post seems to place full responsibility for conception on the woman. If a man is an addict, shouldn't he ensuring that he can't get a woman pregnant in the first place? Why should she be responsible for ensuring the quality of his sperm is adequate to produce a healthy baby?

And, as OrangeHat points out, let's not forget that the woman in this situation is actually a CHILD. We should be prosecuting the man responsible for statutory rape and impregnating a CHILD while obviously abdicating complete responsibility for the baby. We should be shaming the authorities who allowed a CHILD to become pregnant without going after the man, the authorities who failed to help that CHILD get herself in a position where she could cope with the pregnancy and give the baby the best start.

And lastly, whatever the circumstances surrounding this baby's conception, I expect that losing the baby is punishment enough for this poor girl. It's not like she got off scot-free even if they drop the charges, is it.

YANBU. Interesting post from HavePatience. Is there any way we in the UK can support Americans who don't agree with the "religious right"?

This is horrific. Presumably the very women who need the extra support through their pregnancies will disengage from healthcare services for fear of accusations.

Why does America hate women so much?

stop your fucking hand wringing I think you'll find at least 50% of the citizens are gasp women!.

Americans are insane

yep yep clearly we're all mental. Anything else? If you have a problem with a law, one law you have a problem with that law, not the citizens of a very big country. I knew this would be a thread bashing Americans, thank fuck the UK is so perfect and so equal why don't I go tell dittany and the feminist board to stfu as clearly they aren't needed. The UK has no problems

Oh and for a country that hates women and has no health care system as I keep being told, I am now currently on medicaid (and no that isn't a new Obama thing, my mother had me on medicaid) and receiving free health care for me and my unborn child and WIC which provides food and formula for myself and the baby I already have. I completely agree with the outrage about this one particular law, but to start going on about a country the vast majority of you havent got a fucking clue about makes you looke ignorant beyond belief.

Agree with LolaRennt and HavePatience - this is like saying all Europeans are animal haters because some Spanish like bullfighting.

I also suspect that there is more to this than initially mets the eye. Contributory factors are probably:

• the strain on US healthcare budgets from under-age underclass babies....
• ....which are typically drug riddled, adding complications
• trying to deal with feckless fathers
• the general US view that your fate is something you are responsible for
• the Southern states' high dislike of abortion
• The religious elemnst make it had to have effectyovbe but counter-intutive policies

....and the outcome is something like this. I also suspect that the reason teh Grauniad even saw it is because campaigners in Mississippi are using it to point to al the inconsistencies due to non joined up thinking on the above point.

and this stuff could never happen in the UK, of course.....

Why so touchy, Lola? The vast majority of posters have been talking about this 'one particular law' which you say you agree with them about. People know that not all of America is the same.

Because the generalizations about Americans are becoming increasingly acceptable on this site and worst of all boring.

50 states make up the US, that includes Alaska, Hawaii, Texas, Alabama, California try and genuinely imagine the diversity in these states just for a second. Try and tell me that the priorities of an Alaskan are exactly the same as a New Yorker! There are areas in my state where people almost exlusively speak Spanish, there are areas that still speak German. People spoke bloody French creole, why do we forget this? You may feel the UK can be grouped in to one big pot and everyone is the same but you'd be making a mistake to say it about the US.

I don't watch Nick Griffin talk and assume the English hate women and all people of color and think rape is like "a bit too much cake". Because that would make me a jack ass. And I am not a jack ass.