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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wonder why lesbians go for women that look like men?

453 replies

carriedababi · 19/06/2011 23:19

surely if you fancy women you'd want to go out with a woman that looked like \ woman not a man.
nothing against gay/lesbians at all.

but this seems a bit strange to me

OP posts:
carriedababi · 20/06/2011 08:32

I would just like to repeat again I have absolutely nothing against gay people and the ones I know Are a really good laugh

I was just thinking out loud really but m glad I asked as I have found your thoughts enlightening ESP the ones about how theres a certain charm/bravery to the. More "butch" lesbians
As all the lesbians I personally know are like this then that certainly does fit in the the bold talk about anything attitude
I think I know some really head strong people
Ive found this an interesting chat and quite helPful and I totally get the point about how looking like a woman/men is a socially constructed idea as other than boobs everything else apperscthe same when clothed

I just find it interesting how peoples minds with that's all

Anyway hanks for all the replies

OP posts:
TrilllianAstra · 20/06/2011 08:50

If you really believe the "men are like this.." "women are like that..." Mars/Venus stuff then I can see how anything other than a standard heterosexual relationship would be extra confusing to you, because you will be expecting that a relationship needs one of this and one of that to work.

FreudianSlipper · 20/06/2011 08:51

I have absolutely nothing against gay people and the ones I know Are a really good laugh

no really, you mean gay people are like normal people and like to have a laugh too Shock

well you learn something new everyday. couldn't you friends who happen to be gay and happen to like a laugh answer your question or did they laugh at you when you asked

fluffles · 20/06/2011 08:56

i don't understand why the OP and a couple of other posters genuinely think that a woman with short hair and flat shoes 'looks like a man'. Confused

a woman has a different facial structure and breasts, and hips with a waist (to a greater or lesser degree).

i've only ever seen one or two women in my ENTIRE LIFE that actually look like men (actually look like boys).. so clearly there is a short supply if indeed that's what 'lesbian's are looking for Hmm

Cattleprod · 20/06/2011 08:57

I do sometimes wonder about the 'butch' and 'camp' stereotypes of gay women and men respectively. Especially when I'm somewhere with a high proportion of gay people eg. a Pink gig in Brighton. In that case there was a much higher number of women dressed in a 'butch' way (and by butch I mean deliberate styled masculinity/androgeny, not just 'can't be bothered with hair and make-up and pretty clothes') than you would see in a group containing predominantly heterosexual females.

I have a male friend who didn't 'come out' as a gay man until his mid twenties, and soon afterwards he became very camp. It was almost as if he thought that was how he should dress, talk and behave now he had acknowledged the fact that he was gay. That is assuming he hadn't been suppressing his 'campness' for 20+ years in an attempt to appear heterosexual?

So, are 'camp' and 'butch' just two styles, like goth or emo etc., that some gay people adopt to fit in with the parts of society they want to be part of and the image they want to portray, people they want to attract etc., or is it deeper than that?

TheStallionOfSensibleness · 20/06/2011 08:58

you also though get a lot of straight women who have a type of rather "feminine" looking men dont you? the simon amstell type - all hand wringing and pale ;)

i think its rather interesting this thread..

wimpybar · 20/06/2011 09:01

i keep thinking of samantha fox when i see this thread Wink

swallowedAfly · 20/06/2011 09:12

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MittzyTheVixen · 20/06/2011 09:19

I have been called a 'dyke' many many times because of my appearance, quite well built, short hair and I have been told am androgynous in my looks, (no self esteem issues here, no sirree)

There is a kind of stereotype, BUT I know/have known a lot of lesbian couples and the majority of them do have one partner who fits the 'stereotype' of a masculine appearance, weirdly, of the trans-gender people I know, they are all also lesbians.

Tis a curious thing to be sure.

GetOrf · 20/06/2011 09:23

I agree that butch lesbians can look very attractive. I am not gay myself but my mum and aunt are, so have met lots of lesbians.

My mum and her x partner didn't look like typical lesbians - they were normal, feminine looking women.

My aunt and her wife look 'normal' as well, however my aunt had an ex girlfeidn who had a strong look of kd lang, she was incredibly attractive. It was the insouciance I think - she didn't need make up, long hair, revealing clothes to look and feel attractive.

Like heterosexuals there are all sorts of 'types'. I personally am not attracted to thickset rugger bugger type men, but know that lots of women are. It's just differences innit.

jamaisjedors · 20/06/2011 09:24

carrie you should watch the L-word.

Butterbur · 20/06/2011 09:26

..." their confidence in a world that just doesn't get them, their refusal to kowtow to conventional ideas of what an attractive woman looks like, their confidence in their own sexual identity."

I think more of us, gay or straight, should aim to be like this. Far too many straight women shoe horn themselves into society's idea of femininity, and thereby constrain themselves.

MittzyTheVixen · 20/06/2011 09:29

'thickset rugger bugger type men, ' That made me chuckle GetOrf Smile

Carminaburana · 20/06/2011 09:31

Cattleprod- yes, some lesbians deliberately butch themselves up, nothing accidental about it - total conscious decision.

StewieGriffinsMom · 20/06/2011 09:36

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swallowedAfly · 20/06/2011 09:36

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GetOrf · 20/06/2011 09:40

Why do all rugby playing men look the same? Did they look like that in the first place or does the transformation happen in the scrum.

I don't like that look at all. Give me a pretty boy any day.

porcamiseria · 20/06/2011 09:41

thats a HUGE stereotype no? some are fem, some are, well not fem.....

TrilllianAstra · 20/06/2011 09:43

Mittzy you are gorgeous - you need fab bone structure to carry off the very short hair. Why should you be stopped from adopting a hairstyle that suits you just because you fancy men? :o

Carminaburana · 20/06/2011 09:49

The lesbian I know deliberately looks the way she does - she's absolutely beautiful but deffo 'butch'. - and she only likes a certain 'type' - so it is fascinating.

MrsTittleMouse · 20/06/2011 09:51

swallowedAfly - photo of Sam Fox and her girlfriend here.

WowOoo · 20/06/2011 09:55

I know two couples. One pair are very boyish looking. Another pair both have longer hair and are more 'feminine' looking i suppose. So, they don't fit the one will be more butch stereotype. Doesn't help sorry!

The two 'boyish' ones - one of them is definately more 'macho'/ opiniated/ show off and pushy than the other.
I've argued with her before as she can be a pain in the ass. The two fems, again, one is bossier and says her house, her rules etc etc Also, far more open and proud about her sexuality. But as far as I can see they are actaully all equal partners.

TotemPole · 20/06/2011 09:57

Isn't forcing the 'butch look' just as bad as women forcing themselves to wear high heels, skirts and make up etc even though it doesn't feel natural?

GetOrf, I'm convinced it's something to do with the scrum. All that pulling and pushing affects their foreheads so making them grow and become heavy set.

hester · 20/06/2011 09:58

Some lesbians, to be sure, seem to have butch ingrained into their sexuality. They will often tell you that they were tomboys, that they never wanted to do girly things, that they feel ridiculous in feminine clothing. I know heterosexual women like this too, though fewer (maybe because it is harder for straight women to express this preference?).

I think those lesbians were over-represented in the ranks when homosexuality was a very, very hard lifestyle choice. They are women who simply cannot live in any other way without destroying themselves, and so who chose to be very brave. I'm not saying there weren't femme lesbians before the 70s - far from it - but they were not such a high proportion of the lesbian community as they are now.

For most lesbians, I think butch identity swings in and out of fashion. Among the young peopole [strokes whiskers, sucks on pipe] the current aesthetic seems to be a kind of pretty, boyish androgyny - like Shane in the L Word. Definitely female but lean and sporty.

Most of my lesbian friends are in their 40s and 50s and look very conventionally feminine. I just look like a West London working mother, indistinguishable from the others at the schoolgate. You could meet me and I wouldn't for one second disturb any assumptions about 'lesbians are women with male hormones who like to be dominant in bed' because you wouldn't twig I am lesbian. Unless I chose to tell you.

Oh, and IME the link between what lesbians look like and how they act between the sheets is pretty weak.

TheStallionOfSensibleness · 20/06/2011 09:59

i liek teh BIG ness of rugby type men. I like the broad shoulders and tall ness.

could never go out with a bloke under 6 ft or with a chest under 40 incches
ew ew ew