to ask does Breastfeeding need promoting?

[mummamizz]

It's a bit of a follow on from the thread about the controversial "apple dumplings" Anyone who wants to watch it it's here

If your answer is yes Why? How would you personally do it? What message would you want to get across? Do you think advertising would make a difference?

In my ideal world, here is how I would 'normalise' breastfeeding:-

I think banning all formula advertising & it's associated freebie perks.

All TV programmes with bottle feeding banned. I was watching Cbeebies at someone else's house the other day, (I loather the channel we're Disney here), & was amazed at how many bottle feeds I saw. Including animals, but no explanation as why they were having to be bottle fed.

I'd tax / make the formula companies pay for breastfeeding counsellors in hospitals.

Increase the policing of the bollox that gets written in the media about bfing.

Have a word with the tv & film producers to get bfing written into programmes correctly. I don't mean whole breastfeeding story lines, just been characters have babies their storylines fit with what a bfing woman would do. In coronation st 1 character was verbal about deciding to formula feed, because it was easier or similar reason another was shown on camera preparing bottles of formula & the father feeding the baby, yet months later mentioned 'I can't have a drink I'm breastfeeding'. The first normalises it to give up bfing, the second sends wrong messages to people who may consider bfing.

I'd make it fucking illegal for the stupid bitches on Loose Women to EVER mention bfing. To quote the blonde idiot who used to be on The Bill, "I don't think women should breastfeed in public / cafes / restaurants, because I don't want my man seeing some other woman's breast". I have never ever heard anything positive about bfing on that programme. Carol McGiffin "sex is an animal urge but we don't all go round having sex in public" on the same debate.

A woman that hasn't even thought about having children will have that lodged in their subconscious years before the decision is made.

I'd get celebs that do bf, to have photo's published in mainstream media of them bfing.

Basic information about bfing in the national curriculum.

A media campaign to congratulate bfing rates.

Not much really

As has been mentioned before, extras on movies and tv bf in the back ground would be a good start. CHaracters with babies bf their children. Not mentioned as such, just doing it. Like it isnt a big deal, because it shoudlnt be

I personally think the biggest obstacle breastfeeding faces is the real-life backlash that seems to occur in response to the (perceived or actual) pressure to breastfeed.

You have women who don't like being told what to do, and so as soon as they encounter any sort of obstacle in getting b/feeding establish, revert to formula at the earliest opportunity, sticking two fingers up at breastfeeding establishment as they do so.

This backlash also manifests itself by almost silencing any advice or tips on successful breastfeeding, since you're putting pressure on a new Mum at a vulnerable time in her life; making her feel guilty. So you have to keep quiet, lest you add to that.

I don't know - I just feel that promotion of breastfeeding is on a hiding to nothing as it's either preaching to the converted or making women who ended up ff feel more resentful and closed off to the idea in the future. Their alignment with ff becomes more entrenched, and they dig their heels in further.

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, or if what I'm trying to say is coming across at all. I guess I just agree with all those who say that promotion isn't the issue; hands-on support and practical help in the early days is the only thing that is going to improve rates.

That, and as others have said, more exposure to b/feeding in real life. There was someone on the other thread who I really related to - Olanska-something (forgive me for not remembering! :) ), I think, who sounded just like me. Really normal, with normal friends and family, caring about the way I look (in all sorts of different ways - diet and keeping slim, hair, make-up as well as clothes), going out with friends, socialising, wining, dining, etc, etc, etc, who just happens to breastfeed.

We need to see more of our sort of people! And I do do my bit - I have never hidden away from b/feeding in public, and have never had a negative comment when doing it (quite the opposite). But in all honesty, seeing someone like that breastfeeding is such a rare sight (because I am, as is soooo seemingly important discreet above everything else). I am one person though - it's not enough to change entrenched views...

Er, promote BFing why ?

It's not a public health issue, much as some might think it so. As I said on another thread, the e-coli outbreak is a public health issue. Breast feeding is simply a choice you make about how you feed your baby. The NHS has no more right to promote how you feed your baby than it does to tell you how to wipe your bum.

"We need to see more of our sort of people". I'm sure you didn't mean it so, but that comes across as very rude and divisive.

It is no business of ours how anyone feeds their babies. Support those who BF yes, but bully promote? No.

And how can you have people in soaps and films BFing when they are actors and probably not lactating. Ban bottle feeding in TV programmes? I'm sorry but what? Have you any idea how that sounds? You can't ban the portrayal of something because it doesn't fit in with your ideals. That way lies madness!

BFing IS normal, so is FF. You do one, the other, or mix the two, but it is the mother's choice to make, not yours, mine or her GP's.
SUPPORT whatever a woman decides to do, help her if necessary, but this whole idea of promotion...?

Oh, and the symbol of a bottle for feeding rooms is a bottle because...even Anne Summers doesn't have baps as her logo, and a madonnaesque mother and child logo is A) used by, I believe, GOSH, and B) too intricate for signage. It's not discrimination, just the easiest way to convey a meaning, which is what signs do.

BFers are not a repressed minority, ffs; it's a feeding choice that only the main carer can make or indeed has the right to make. Some woman can't, some women simply don't have the time, some just plain don't want to. Their gaff, their rules. If you can and you want to, great, but don't go thinking that your choice makes you better than FFers and gives you the right to promote your choice.
Help someone yes, but OHHHH I have seen the pressure and experienced it, and as mentioned elsewhere, actually had some crone who was going around the ward helping people latch on, without so much as a by-your-leave, come and yank my boob out of DD1's happily latched on mouth and maul me about showing me "how to do it properly". That is assault. That is not the kind of support I want any where near me.

I agree with everything you say 5dollar.
I haven't ever had comments from strangers, but have had plenty from friends, the most recent telling what a load of rubbish breastfeeding was, how her dc were all healthier than anything and were all FF, and carried on with a general rant about BFing. There were a few children present at the time (was school pickup time), so is there any wonder they grow up thinking BFing is weird.

I had a (misplaced) rant on the burlesque thread after this incident about how everything is against BFing, and for FF. Signs to baby feeding rooms, bottles with all dolls, HCP's pushing formula at every opportunity, but it's true. Cancel some of these out, particularly the ignorance of drs and HV's when it comes to breastfeeding, and I'm fairly sure more people would carry on.

BF is not a public health issue
Sorry, but I disagree, as does the NHS and most local authorities.

I think you have a very narrow view of public health. Epidemiology in its purest form relates to the study of epidemics, but now has evolved to relate to anything which has an impact on health at a population level.

Luna - actually on a population level it is a public health issue. There have been estimates about how much money would be saved if more people breastfed for longer, how fewer children would need to be hospitalised for respiratory and gastric illnesses.
As Tiktok pointed out on the other thread, these figures are tried and tested, taking into account sociology-economic differences.

Yes it is the mothers right to choose, but sadly far too many women are being failed by the system. Threads like these are usually full of women feeling like failures because they had to stop breastfeeding, many of these would have, could have continued with better support.
A breastfeeding mother, in the early days, needs support from her partner and from her family as well as from midwives etc. Maybe by promoting facts about breastfeeding rather than the godawful guff that is spouted allover the place,by many people who should know better, this will start to happen.

I think everyone should know the facts about breastfeeding (men, women and children) and I think everyone who WANTS to breastfeed should receive support to do so.

We have to normalise it within our own families and then hope it spreads further. I have 4 sisters, we were all bottlefed-I didn't see a woman breastfeeding until I was in my teens. I ff my first 2. My midwife said at my first booking in appointment "how will you feed baby?" I said "I don't know anything about breastfeeding, so er with a bottle I guess." She ticked the box and it was never mentioned again. 2nd baby,the same midwife told me to give my 3 day old baby bf baby a bottle because she was clearly hungry! I did as I was told and was so embarrassed that I had 'left my baby hungry'.

I breastfed baby3 for 16 months and baby4 for 15 months. I can't tell you the pride I felt when I found my 2 1/2 yr old dd 'breast feeding' her teddy. I asked her what she was do was dong and she said "booby milk". I hope my daughters believe it is the most natural thing in the world and give it a go with their babies. I hope my sons encourage their partners to try. I hope there is support for all of them.

My SiL has been breastfeeding for 8 months now and says if it wasn't for seeing me do it she never would have tried. Her own mother says breast feeding is creepy.

Figures can be...not manipulated, but...biased? according to whoever commissioned the study - I've previously mentioned how a study paid for by some tobacco company found that second hand smoke WASN'T as dangerous as thought.

Poor housing very likely caused my DD3's meningitis. Will the government haul crap landlord's arses over the coals because of their crapness?
Poor housing also contributes to repiratory and gastric problems. I see no public health issues about that.
If you want breastfeeding to become a public health issue, then please also take on the mighty fecking car. Or red meat. Or anything else which has risk factors.

The women I've seen who felt like failures only felt such because of the pressure they got from their HCPs and BFing buddies. NOT because it was a no-goer per se.
One of my loved ones who spent every feedtime in tears and agony despite being correctly latched despite there being no infection present, despite nothing being physically wrong despite getting NO sleep at night, wouldn't give up because she was "worried what everyone (not her loved ones, but her latching group, HCPs, mums met at antenatal classes) would think" of her.

How does that make you feel?

Just to add-I was asked to go into my daughter's infant school and chat about babies for a topic about life cycles. The children had all prepared questions to ask about the baby. One 7 yr old boy asked "What do babies eat?" I said that I breast fed so my baby was only having breast milk atm and the teacher looked horrified. She told me afterwards that it was unnecessary to use the word 'breast' and I could have just said 'milk'.

Possibly because at that age, breasts are a huge source of amusement. Not because it was YOUR milk, but because she probably didn't want the giggle-fest that usually ensues after mentions of body parts and functions.

My dd3 rolls up at the word 'pants'.

Breast feeding is promoted everywhere you go when you are pregnant, there is no way it is not promoted enough. It is seen as normal. However, every single mother I know, bar none, gave up breastfeeding after a few days, a few weeks at tops, purely 100% because it was too hard work and too difficult.

With the first baby it is all such a shock that no amount of antinatal care can prepare you for. The lack of sleep, struggling with your hormones, just plain bloody scared you will do something wrong. Those first 6-7 weeks are a nightmare - you are settling down, the baby is settling down. Breast feeding is really difficult to the majority of people, latching on nightmares, split nipples, constant feeding, not being able to do much as the baby just wants to feed and feed and feed.

With subsequent babies, you can't spend the time just concentrating on breast feeding as you have other children you have to take care of. In fact, I could list half a dozen women who struggled through breast feeding baby no.1 but were not prepared to put in the hours and hours with baby no.2 or more because they wanted to focus on their first child too. They felt breastf eeding got in the way of that.

No amount of publicising will stop any of the above. This is a personal choice and women should not be made to feel bad because they chose not to breast feed. Being a mother is not all about breast feeding. There are far more important factors to being a mother and no woman should be made to feel like she is failing her baby because she is bottle feeding. The jury decision about how good a mother you are is not made at 3 months old, it is made at 30 years old and beyond.

What?
So bf groups aren't allowed to promote and support breastfeeding because they're not also addressing other PH issues
That isn't how it works, honestly - surely you can see that. It's like saying a cancer charity shouldn't be fundraising for cancer until they've also eradicated heart disease.

"Possibly because at that age, breasts are a huge source of amusement. "
Yes, exactly! Breastfeeding is not normal. Should we not address this?

i think that more help is needed, perhaps making paternity leave longer.

we could only afford for DH to take 2 weeks off (which i know is better than some families) so when dd was born i only managed 3 days,i was exchusted and i knew it took me 7 weeks on ds to not have to feed every 1/2 hour, with having a 3 year old there is no way i could sleep in the day once DH was back to work, so i switched to bottlefeeding

it should be normalised.
but how to do hat without advertising?
having a "quota" on tv shows? like a bf baby in east enders or other soaps? banning advertisements? banning formula in maternity wards oher than for "medical needs"?
difficult one.

studies can be biased like those supported by tobacco companies? eh?

tobacco companies do that for profit- no one is making profit from bf so that makes no sense!

who do you think is benefiting from bf promotion and in what interest luna

mousymouse, in some hospital you have to either bring your own formula, bottles ect or buy it in little bottles.

AuntiePickleBottom - your point about having to feed your DD every half an hour for 7 weeks is my point exactly. How can you do that with other children to look after? What if your older child is 18 months old? How can you get children to school when you have had bugger all sleep?

I struggled for 3 weeks with ds1 and 1 week with ds2. It was hell on earth. There was no way I was prepared to endure that for 7 weeks, NO BLOODY WAY.

When I had my dd I was adamant I would not breast feed, I would not even try, it was a nightmare I wasn't going to endure. I am sure it was the right thing for me and my family. I had 2 very young sons to have to look after and there was no way I would have been able to breast feed every half an hour.

Now my 3 children are all older, I realise that breast feeding is such a minor insignificant part of parenting. There are far more important things to worry about throughout your children's childhoods.

I have found the people who shout about breast feeding and bang the drum for promotion and normalising are those with babies, or a hell of a lot of support.

For mere mortals with no parents near by and little support, breast feeding is just too difficult.

So if it's not a public health issue, then why is the NHS promoting breastfeeding then? :confused:

Do you really think it's all for shits and giggles and, what? Just to make women feel guilty?

And yeah, what SPB said.

Yes I always find it strange when people say the NHS are biased or have their own agenda - what exactly do they think that agenda involves? because IME it's the health of the population, usually

And it's not just the NHS incidentally, but every other country on earth as well. They're all in cahoots with regards this agenda they have.....

if i was ever to have another baby (very unlikey) i would bottle feed from the moment he/she was born.

i enjoy the baby stages with dd alot more, as i had the energy to take her walks in her pram, go to play café and do baby massages ect.
with ds i was to exchusted to even leave the house

No one who is promoting bf should be taking away the right to choose

Luna - I'm currently feeding my 4th baby. His early weeks were exactly as you described your lived ones. Ds has a tongue tie, I persevered because I knew it shouldn't be that difficult and painful. I had to persuade my GP to refer ds to get it snipped, he couldn't see the problem as I could just bottlefeed. If he was my first or even second baby, I wouldn't have had the confidence to push for what I knew needed to happen. Was your loved ones baby checked for tongue tie? A posterior TT is very unlikely to be spotted by your average HCP,
unfortunately for many new mothers (just have a trawl through the
breastfeeding boards)

If a mother wants to feed her baby, everything should be done to enable that, and if it's not possible, she should be given support to move on to FF without feeding guilty.

As for comparing this to cars and red meat, how often are there adverts for car safety "clunk click, every trip" "kill your speed not a child" drink driving adverts, Police! Stop! type programmes on over and over again showing the dangers of driving like a cock.
Red meat is brought up again and again in the news, on health programmes, on diet programmes, so perhaps not a well thought out argument.
When is the last time you've seen breastfeeding on tv? Was it mentions on Loose Women? Or that extended breastfeeding programme with the lady feeding her 8 yo? Or the biased interviews with Claire Byam-Cooke (?) comparing extended BFing to giving your toddler coca-cola?
Hardly representative of most BFing mothers experiences.

How does that make you feel? Because it's clear to me that ther is nothing like a level playing field when it comes to BFing.

And for the record, I mix fed my first, and found the faff of formula so much more difficult than breastfeeding. If I want to go out, I need a couple of nappies and a pack of wipes. None of the rigmarole of bottle-feeding, and I don't need to double check to make sure my boobs are there