...to ask what you think of this new breastfeeding video?

[clitorisorclitoraint]

I found it a tadge patronising.

You?

Xxxxxx, I said "I agree with the portrayal of cows' milk..."

xxxxxkxxxxx

Before formula? babies were wet-nursed, given cows' milk or died.

and whilst I would be very loathe to give formula over breastfeeding, I wouldn't be so flipping judgey, as who knows if i will always have that choice.

And as for studentmidwife's remarks... a little unprofessional? suggest you go train a little bit more. having knowledge is one thing, sharing it another and forcing your own views down someone else's throat when it's unprofessional to do so is another thing entirely.

glamorous = burlesque? personally think the mums look like more glamorous and sexy in those gorgeous hand-made vintage-style dresses, than in their underwear.

I'd just love to know how the heck they managed to fit sickrags down their corsets! I can't even fit my tits in mine

Im sorry if I have offended anyone, at no point have I meant to upset or make anyone feel guilty. I merely have stated the facts regarding formula as many people were confused as to whether formula was as good as breast milk. At no point have I ever and would never call formula POISON. As I stated before when breastmilk is not avalaible Formula milk is an excellent substitute, but when it is a choice as long as women know the true facts they have the right to make an informed choice.
Lunabelly - I am very sad at hearing your story at no point should a midwife have shouted at you in your own home and made you feel guilty at what you had chosen to do for your baby.
I think the comments about me needing more training are abit harsh considering I have supported many women with both breastfeeding and formula feeding and do not make any woman feel she is doing the wrong thing as long as they have made an informed choice and are happy with that desicion.

xxxstudentmidwifexxx - yours is an entirely factual post - don't understand why its offensive?

what if women don't want to bf? well thats a cultural/lifestyle decision - you can decide not to bf all you want but it wont change the facts studentmidwife has stated above.

There is nothing factual comparing formula milk to McDonalds.

I personally think that the risks associated with FF might sometimes be more to do with culture/lifestyle as well. For example, asthma and gastric problems can be just as prevalent, if not more so, amongst children who live in substandard accomodation.

Until studies prove conclusively that all those horrible things are caused exclusively by formula and not by, say, poor housing, I will give those stats short shrift... (for example, are UK women living near the poverty line more likely to FF? We KNOW they are more likely to live in substandard housing. [I know our old shithole flat had mushrooms growing on the walls and an untested-for-6-years boiler] Where then can we measure the damage FF does and the damage poor housing does. Also consider that, are poorer, FF mothers more likely to, say, smoke? ARE all these taken into account when these scary posters are produced?

I ask, because I once heard that a study had shown that secondary smoke was nowhere near as bad as was previously thought. That study was paid for by a tobacco company.

And I would also be very, very interested to know if human milk has been tested for toxins and pollutants and if so, what were the results? I know that carpets are apparently full of traffic pollution where it's come through the windows. The point I am trying to make is that there are risks in everything.

I would also go so far as asking if some of the countries mentioned where formula was recalled have safety standards as stringent as, say, the UK? I know due to numerous toy recalls that at least one of them doesn't.

I have been bullied and patronised by the very people who are supposed to help, protect and inform us, and have witnessed it happen to many other women. Seeing a previously strong woman bawling her eyes out and wincing in pain because of her feeding experiences but being too scared of what people would think of her if she stopped...well...

In short, take the cows and "It's better than all the rest" out, and the room full of BFing was a bit...cultish, then great, smashing, marvellous, but guit-tripping those who opt out is simply not cricket.
And you can still tell me how they managed to fit boobs AND sickrags in their corsets? Please?

Oh, and low IQ? Hardly. Mine's genius level (ha ha ha!) and my kids are pretty damn sharp too. If I could be bothered, I'd be busy ruling the world

98% of mums in Norway and Sweden breastfeed exclusively to 6 weeks and 85% to six months. It's normal.

They are not physiologically different (some UK men may disagree) to UK women.

Formula milk advertising is banned in these countries.

I wonder if these 2 things can possibly be related?

Jannerjo - not only is it banned, but I think formula milk can only be bought on prescription in these countries, something I strongly disagree with.

I'm sure they are releated Jannerjo.

jannerjo - excellent post and how interesting! belgo - why do you disagree with that? i think its unlikely docs ever say no to formula - they won't let babies starve will they? actually the prescription debate is netheir here nor there - i imagine a total ban on formula advertising in any form does 90% of the job :)

why is a room full of bf mums cultish? i sit in a room full of bf mums every week - its called a latch on group

Wow a latch on group- must be a laugh a minute its like joining a group exclusively for women who's husbands are called Dave or Mums who feed their children mung bean casserole...whats wrong with socialising with MOTHERS not just people who breastfeed ffs?

bimbo - er its a drop in group that you can go to if you are having problems and or need advice about bf. BUT its not exclusively for problems - lots of mums just come along to chill out and gas about babies/eastenders/inflation/whatever. yes, its an exclusive bf group - there are lots of them all over the uk, usually in sure start centres - deal with it. at my childrens centre there are probably about 30 different sessions there every week which just support as you say mothers, then theres 1 bf group - is that still an issue for you?

i suppose you could have an exclusive ff group but have a little think about why no need for them has yet arisen.

Norway and Sweden also have excellent maternity leave arrangements. I am sure this has a huge impact on the choice to BF or FF. If you're only going to be home with your baby for a few months (or weeks in the case of a lot of USA mums) then BFing then going through the whole switch to bottle/formula may seem more hassle than it's worth...

Studentmidwife your position that there is no such thing as a woman who can't breastfeed, only women who are not adequately supported, is over-simplistic and I hope you are able to better educate yourself before you finish training. The hospital where I had DS was very pro-bf and very supportive for all the good it did us.

DS latched on fine straight after birth and a succession of midwives pronounced him to be feeding well because he stayed there. What they didn't notice was that he was barely sucking and getting exhausted. If they had noticed and, who knows, bottle fed him some formula, then maybe he wouldn't have lost over 20% of his weight in his first 5 days, would have been able to fight off his jaundice and maybe I wouldn't have had to spend 2 weeks recovering from a c-section on a camp bed in the children's ward (no room in the SCBU).

Antenatal classes make no mention of situations like this and it would seem that midwives don't spot them either. Maybe that's because they think the way you do - if the mother is willing it will work out. Gung-ho dogmatism is not the way, you also need a bit of expertise and an open mind about what individual mothers and babies might need.

For what it's worth, I am still expressing nearly 6 months down the line and DS is mix fed. I think with a formula kickstart at the beginning I could have ebf.

Isn't one of the most common reasons for not breastfeeding that breasts are associated with sex, surely then this is just reinforcing that and therefore does more harm than good.

Isn't the best way to increase breastfeeding rates to make it mainstream, not creepy and something normal women do - non of which this video does!

Some women just can't breast feed it's as simple as that.My mum couldn't my sis couldn't and neither could i.I tried with both dcs and I really don't think scarmongering and guilt tripping is the answer.My nipples aint made for it.I've been taught by various mws how to latch baby on but it didn't make a blind bit of difference.The pain was unbearable.I hated it

On a slightly different subject - I bloody love that video, it it absolutely hysterical. God bless Youtube . And God bless boobs. Great inventions.

TCOB - me too!

Yeah maternity leave has a lot to do with it, but at the risk of stirring up some ire I would say a target group for bf promotion is younger women who have never worked or don't have a 'career' to go back to and therefore for whom maternity leave is not an issue... I speak from a degree of experience....

Thanks sungirltan we are obviously on the same wavelength however many times I try to explain myself people on here still dont seem to get it!

soverylucky - if you look at the beginning of the thread a couple of comments say is formula as good as breastmilk unless your reading a different thread?
I know many women have problems I have been there supporting them many times.... it just seems odd how so many women in our country/society where formula is so accepted and freely advertised as like you say a safe alternative have so many problems where as in Norway and Sweden have 98% success rate???

Brilliant comment Janergo our country should take some tips! xx

That's very interesting, Jannerjo re. Norway and Sweden. I'd love to see the same laws banning formula promotion in the UK.

If only more women who genuinely cannot breastfeed were encouraged to use a breastmilk bank (and of course for people to donate to them).

Lunabelly, why do you presume that women living in poverty are more likely to formula feed? Surely if money's tight, the free option of breastfeeding would be the one to go for.