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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

not sure if we've gone too far with punishment?

116 replies

Humphreythehamster · 13/06/2011 20:15

DD (7) stole £5 from her teachers desk drawer at school today. She then lied and said that we had given it to her for cake stall money. When I collected her this afternoon her teacher asked me about it and I said that this wasn't true. Teacher was lovely about it and we tackled DD together and after a few more lies she finally admitted that she took the money.

DH and I have cancelled her violin lessons and brownies for the rest of the term so she won't go to either until September, she is also writing a letter of apology to her teacher now.

Is this too harsh? About right? not enough? I am so disappointed in her and upset that this has happened :(

OP posts:
BarbaraBar · 13/06/2011 20:43

I think the punishment is about right.

BootyMum · 13/06/2011 20:43

Have you asked your daughter why she stole the money? It could be a type of cry for help. Is anything else going on in her life at the moment that might be worrying her?

I only ask because I did the same thing when I was around her age, except I stole from my parent's purse and also a school friend's birthday money Sad

I then used the money to buy snacks at the school canteen and would hand these out amongst my classmates. I did this to try and buy friends and popularity. I was actually quite an insecure child and socially a little awkward. I didn't get pocket money from my parents and had noticed that the "popular kids" always had nice things that other children coveted and this would improve their status in the pecking order. And as I didn't have any money to buy the nice things I took it instead. I did not feel it was the wrong thing to do as I think I lacked the empathy to realise that my actions would hurt or inconvenience the person I stole from.

I tell you this not to excuse my or your daughter's behaviour but rather to say that sometimes it is worth getting to the bottom of why these antisocial behaviours happen.

By the way I grew out of this behaviour pretty quickly [only did it a couple of times] and my parent's shame and disappointment in me was enough to curb my acquisitive impulse.

And I have grown into a respectable member of the community with no criminal convictions whatsoever Grin

So don't let anyone villify your daughter just yet. Talk it over with her.

chicletteeth · 13/06/2011 20:44

It is not too harsh.
She is old enough to know better.
My eldest (just turned six) has now grasped the fact that when he find money, its not necessarily his (although it might be) and that we put it on the counter and decide what to do with it if we can't discover who it belongs to (i.e. if nobody remembers losing a £2 coin or dropping a fiver etc..).

He without a doubt knows that my money is my purse is mine and that he is never to take anything from it unless he has been given my permission first.

It is stealing and she knew it was and she lied to cover her tracks.

It's not the end of the world, she did it, she got caught, she'll be punished and hopefully now she won't do it again.

I think your punishment fits the crime.

girliefriend · 13/06/2011 21:05

Harsher than I would be but I can understand why you are upset. Am trying to figure out what I would do in that situation........!!!

Hmm I think no pocket money for a few wks, sorry letter and bed early all week.

I wouldn't cancel violen lessons and maybe no brownies for a week.

IHeartKingThistle · 13/06/2011 21:17

I'm surprised people are saying it's harsh. Absolutely talk it over with her but at the end of the day she stole money from a teacher. I would hit the roof.

I think you're doing the right thing OP, hopefully she'll learn the lesson once and not forget it Smile

WhoAteMySnickers · 13/06/2011 21:21

About right I'd say. She stole and she lied to you and her teacher when confronted. I'd be tempted to stop pocket money until the end of term too.

I can't abide liars and it's one of the things I'd be really hard on because I'd want to nip it in the bud.

Lightshines · 13/06/2011 21:22

both my DCs have stolen and I used to do it as well - now its either a klepto gene or its something that lots of us try...

I was caught as a kid, was mortified and shamed by my favourite teacher having caught me red-handed. Never did it again.

With the DCs I made them return the item and apologise face-to-face to the person from whom they had stolen something. I assume your DD has done this? I think a letter is good, but it can be a cop out. I hope the teacher was not too forgiving, as a soft touch may make DD feel better, but actually she needs a stern talking to?

Once they had apologised I did not punish them further - the trauma was enough to put them off nicking stuff again.

topazmcgonagall · 13/06/2011 21:27

Can I just ask what you'll do if she does steal or lie again? You're backing yourselves into a corner if you overreact.

LittleMissFlustered · 13/06/2011 21:27

Agree with stopping Brownies (I would also make sure her Pack leader knows why she is absent). Not so sure about violin lessons, as I count them as 'schooling' but it's entirely your call. I would also dock pocket money to the value she stole and tell her to choose a charity to give it to.

You're not being harsh, you are being practical. Good luck.

Georgimama · 13/06/2011 21:29

So she should go easy on the punishment, topaz, so she's got something to work up to if the behaviour continues?

Seriously?

IHeartKingThistle · 13/06/2011 21:31

You beat me to it almost word-for-word, Georgimama!

She's more likely to do it again if OP underreacts, surely?

Anyway, the worst thing now would be to go back on what she's said.

Original poster
Humphreythehamster · 13/06/2011 21:32

Thank you all so much for your replies, the more I think about it the more comfortable I feel with our decision.

DD did apologise to her teacher in person today, her teacher was lovely to me about this not DD, sorry I wasn't clear before. She seems to have a very similar way of dealing with this to me. Not shouty but obviously furious and disappointed. She even gave me a little hug when DD went to put the money back in the drawer as I was so upset :)

OP posts:
Lightshines · 13/06/2011 21:37

i just thought of something obvious - it depends on your child and the usual level of bad behaviour/punishments

does she seem genuinely apologetic, remorseful?

for some children, it may be that you have to be quite tough to show you mean business, whereas others would be mortified by a strict telling off

i think the idea of telling her Pack leader why she if away from Brownies is too harsh, by the way

we all make mistakes, she needs to learn from this one but i would not rub her nose in it - give her a chance to apologise, rectify her mistake and move on

but - I am probably far too soft Grin

Original poster
Humphreythehamster · 13/06/2011 21:37

So far we have found that if DD is hauled over the coals (metaphorically) the first time she does something serious she tends not to repeat it. We have tried previously to be a bit fluffier about bad behaviour but she carried on and did it again sending DH and I sky rocketting. I'd say she wont do it again, if she does, we'll deal with it then.

I have to admit that today is the closest I have ever come to smacking her Blush :(

OP posts:
Original poster
Humphreythehamster · 13/06/2011 21:40

lightshines, DD is a child who needs very firm treatment whereas her older and younger sisters are of the 'mortified by a telling off' variety, amazing how different they are really.

OP posts:
Lightshines · 13/06/2011 21:40

Humphreythehamster - glad you have been reassured by MNers help, but actually the fact that you are happy with your decision is the main thing!

(and glad the teacher was not too soft on your DD - as a teacher it was probably not the first time she had encountered the situation and glad for you that she was sensitive enough to acknowledge your feelings - she sounds lovely!)

Kiwimumm · 13/06/2011 21:42

Personally I would carry on the violin lessons, maybe a more constructive punishment was to make her practice twice as long at home for a week!!
(I did piano from the age of 6 and my lessons never got cancelled but i did hate practicing scales)!!!

That definitly is a naughty thing to do, it needs to be nipped in the bud, sounds like you are doing the right thing tho

youarekidding · 13/06/2011 21:48

Seems fine to me.

I have a DS (6) and I'm finding he is beginning to tell tall tales atm, not activley lying (yet!) but think he's trying to head that way. I also find he needs to be trodden on (again metaphorically) for him to stop. Fluffy does not work as he's to flappy. Grin

What I've been saying is that I need to know I can trust him to tell the truth/ behave or he'll have less freedom. Maybe thats the way to explain it to your DD? That she's missing the activities whilst she re builds your trust/ improves her behaviour? That way if she's really good for a few weeks and you feel like reinstating violin and/or brownies you can say its because she's proved how well she can behave, and you are proud of her for learning right from wrong?

I always tell DS I love him when we have these chats as I don't want to feel I don't trust him, just he has to earn that iyswim?

topazmcgonagall · 13/06/2011 21:58

Yup, georgimama, seriously. What happens if she steals again? Take away violin and brownies till Christmas? It's much more important to get across to her as calmly as possible that it's wrong to steal. The law doesn't think she's old enough to understand this (8 in Scotland, 10 in England), and it's down to the parents to teach this. Punishment is not the best teaching tool. Ask her teacher what she advises. And certainly don't tell the Pack leader at Brownies - what on earth would that achieve? She's 7!!

Georgimama · 13/06/2011 22:02

What happens if she steals again? Take away Brownies and violin for good, if they mean that much to her. And all pocket money. No birthday parties. No friends for playdates. I could continue.

HooverTheHamaBeads · 13/06/2011 22:03

It is possibly too harsh IMO, perhaps a shorter punishent would have been appropriate.

Thing is, now that you've said it you'll have to stick with it. Otherwise you'll look like a pushover.

BoosMaw · 13/06/2011 22:05

I think it's think not too harsh, that's a pretty serious crime for a 7yo! If my DD had done that I'd probably have exploded! (which admittedly maybe doesn't make me the best person to be advising on severity of punishment). With hindsight it may have been better to get her to work on some chores to earn the money back, as someone already mentioned above, but you had to react to the situation at the time, and now the best action will be to go through with the original plan, because to back down would be unhelpful and confusing. I reiterate I'm no expert at this!

FabbyChic · 13/06/2011 22:05

I think stopping it till September is extreme but agree it should be stopped for a month, I'd also not let her out with her friends or to any parties in that time either.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 13/06/2011 22:11

I have an older ds who has stolen from us, and I think that the OP has done the right thing here. As others have said, the end of term is pretty close, so there is a limit on the punishment, and I think it is serious enough to make her think about her behaviour.

Regarding the 'what if she does it again?' question - I would suggest that the OP discusses this with her dh/dp and formulates a consequence that she then tells her dd about. One option would be talking to the local Police Community Support Officer and getting him or her to come and have a Serious Talk with the girl - this is what we have said to ds will happen if he steals from us again.

OP - have a hug from me too - I really do know how you are feeling, and it is awful - and fwiw, I think you have done the right thing.

ohmyfucksy · 13/06/2011 22:13

I don't think it's too harsh if you are sure it's just bad behaviour with nothing behind it. But I think you should look at her life and make sure there is nothing going on to make her angry or sad. SOmetimes behaviour like this can be a way of 'kicking back' against other things you have no control over.