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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that having kids is a little bit selfish?

148 replies

nightowlmostly · 13/06/2011 04:55

Now, before you all have a go, hear me out! I was having this argument at work just now and the guy in question seems to think I'm some kind of monster, and I'm been mulling it over on my way home.

I have two main reasons for feeling this way. The first is that there are so many kids out there in need of a loving home, that having your own is a selfish act?

The other point I have is that there are so many humans on this planet already that the earth is struggling to cope as it is. Surely having kids, lets say only two, is putting more pressure on the earth's resources as they have their own kids and they have more etc?

But, I am not saying that this selfishness is a terrible thing, far from it. We are programmed to reproduce, at a base level and it's hard to fight instinct after all. We are TTC at the moment, having decided that it is what we want, ie from a selfish point of view. Peolple are selfish all the time, buying expensive things they don't need instead of giving the money to charity, spending all weekend doing things they want to do instead of things they should do. It's human nature and not something to be ashamed of.

The guy at work couldn't understand thinking it is selfish, but planning to do it anyway. Is that so wierd? It's like chucking a few bottles in the normal rubbish instead of recycling, it's not right but sometimes we do it anyway.

Am I making any sort of sense?

And finally, AIBU?

OP posts:
iscream · 13/06/2011 04:58

YANBU. Everything you say is true.

Original poster
nightowlmostly · 13/06/2011 05:02

Thank you iscream! I know iI'm playing with fire saying this on here of all places, but my colleague made out I was super unreasonable.

I want to have my own kids, I just feel a little bit guilty about doing it!

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 13/06/2011 05:14

Well, it's an extreme biological urge, so I don't know if "selfish" would be the word.

Also it's not as easy to adopt as perhaps it should be.

Good luck on TTC!

Omigawd · 13/06/2011 05:39

It's the Selfish Gene in action :).

The one I don't get is how come it is so hard to adopt kids that it puts lots of people off

MrsDePoint · 13/06/2011 05:43

YABU. Who would decide who is allowed to reproduce? Bonkers, IYAM.

5DollarShake · 13/06/2011 05:49

I definitely agree that there are selfish sides to it (although if you only have two children between you and your partner you're only reproducing yourselves, numbers-wise).

And no question - it is selfish to want your own flesh and blood instead of adopting a child who needs a home (although in this day and age, at least in western countries, there are fewer and fewer children to adopt).

So YANBU on those fronts. However while there are selfish aspects in wanting to be a parent, actually being a (good) parent involves huge amounts of selflessness. Do you see the difference?

I actually had no idea how much until I had children of my own. People tell you, but there's no way it can truly resonate until you've actually experienced it. You don't mind because you love the very bones of your children, but in order to be a good, loving parent, doing the best by your children that you can, you have to put them and their needs ahead of your own on a daily basis. Frequently, even unrelentingly, on a daily basis. :)

Original poster
nightowlmostly · 13/06/2011 06:15

5dollar, I agree with you, I am in no way saying that parents are selfish individuals! I'm not meaning to attack parents. I'm looking forward to the experience, hopefully I will be able to have my own! I just feel a little bit bad, like if I was a better person I'd be adopting disadvantaged children or something!

Mrsdepoint, I think you've missed the point, as it were. Grin

OP posts:
Morloth · 13/06/2011 06:54

Of course it is selfish. Pretty much everything we do is selfish.

Being selfish comes with the whole concept of 'self'.

DontCallMePeanut · 13/06/2011 08:15

YABU! As asked before, who gets the right to reproduce? Oh, let me guess... The elite do...

Also, I had no choice in DS's conception. Well, I did. It was that or the ex would continue abusing me... Obviously, conception didn't stop that. But I do think what you're saying runs the risk of upsetting a LOT of people. Especially those who didn't want their DC initially.

DuelingFanjo · 13/06/2011 08:19

Oh if only adoption were that easy.

DontCallMePeanut · 13/06/2011 08:20

^Ditto what duelling said. I'm an adoptee, and the hell my parents went through to get me and my younger brother was amazing. Even though they were successful, the problems don't stop once the child becomes yours legally.

Greenshadow · 13/06/2011 08:22

Yes, very selfish. You just listen to those with lots of children - hardly doing it for the good of mankind/the planet are they.

DontCallMePeanut · 13/06/2011 08:24

Hmm What about those of us who stopped at 1, Greenshadow?

Ormirian · 13/06/2011 08:25

Yes. It is the ultimate act of selfishness. Perpetuating your own genetic inheritance potentially at the expense of that of others. More bodies on the planet - less resources for them all.

But generally it is essential. For the human species. And it is what we do.

Callisto · 13/06/2011 08:28

I agree, having children is selfish on many levels. And I always think that people who have more than two children are extra selfish.

Bonsoir · 13/06/2011 08:35

Having children is not per se selfish or unselfish - it is morally neutral. However, the circumstances in which you choose to conceive and the manner in which you bring up your child(ren) may indeed be morally loaded.

Sn0wflake · 13/06/2011 08:40

I think it is selfish too. But looking at it from a UK perspective we do need to replace ourselves to keep society running smoothly....that or allow a lot more immigration. (at the moment we are doing both)

I have a wonderful 1.5 year old and another on the way. It is a joy and very hard being a a parent.

I also thought of adoption but it does seem very difficult. It seems so strange when children do better even in not so great families as compared to just being in care.

Jackin · 13/06/2011 08:40

Yeah, we had one (ds) and then I had the snip. The second specimen is on the way to hospital now!

juuule · 13/06/2011 08:40

For anyone to plan to have children then it is usually a selfish act. They have a child because it's something they want.

Of course there are exceptions. Accidents happen or maybe someone is talked into having a child because a partner wants one or a parent wants a grandchild (which could then be seen a others being selfish).
And sometimes there are accidental pregnancies.

Morloth · 13/06/2011 08:41

Even being selfless towards your kids is a form of selfishness.

I would do anything for my kids, up to and including both killing and dying for them.

I wouldn't do that for someone else's kids. In fact as a rich westerner I am effectively stealing food right out of the mouths of poor kids in the developing world to put it in my kid's mouths.

I do this because they are my kids, mine and I care about my kids more than I care about anyone else's.

That is pretty fucking selfish I think. No point hedging about it. We are designed to be selfish and biologically programmed to want to our genes to continue.

BelleEnd · 13/06/2011 08:45

Absolutely YANBU. I have two and want a third. We considered adoption, but DHs age made it difficult, which really annoys me as he is a wonderful father.
You are very brave for starting this thread, but thank you for doing so. :)

uselesscamhs · 13/06/2011 08:49

The West actually needs more young people as our societies have become top-heavy with older people who need to be cared for and financially supported.

I agree with much that has been said above.

It's a dilemma.

RoyalWelsh · 13/06/2011 09:01

I agree completely with what you are saying but that doesn't stop me being desperate for my own, more than one in my own little fantasy world. At the same time I have put it to DP that I want to foster/adopt at some point, but only when my biological children are old enough to understand what is happening - especially as I would want to look at fostering children with emotional/behavioural problems. So I think sometimes you can do 'selfish' things and then counteract or balance them :)

jeckadeck · 13/06/2011 09:17

It is selfish by definition: genetic proposition is selfish. But it seriously irritates me when people argue that people who have kids are single-handedly screwing up the environment. This is a bit like saying we should bow out and accept decline as a species because of over-population. Can you imagine any other species willingly advocating its own decline for the sake of the planet? If we are a sophisticated, adaptable and intelligent species we should be able to manage population numbers and reproduce without making the reproducers feel guilty about what is after all their prime evolutionary purpose.

Snowfire · 13/06/2011 09:26

My SIL actually told a work colleague how selfish he was when he announced the birth of his 3rd child. I don't think it was well received.....