To have had (another) little cry about my dd's lack of friends

[emkana]

She's very serious and very keen on doing well at school, and just doesn't fit in with the girls in her class. Its been really hard for her for the past year. Shes coming up to the end of year five. I don't know what to advise her other than to tough it out until she gets to secondary - not that it will necessarily get easier then.

That sounds so upsetting, I'm so sorry. Children at that age can be so unthinking and cruel. I'm a primary teacher, and it is unacceptable for the teacher to not be interested when the situation is causing such distress. It must be evident in school, is awful it's not bring addressed. Definitely take it higher. She's unhappy at school, so they should be working on possible solutions to fix this. Ideas I might have is: pick one particular child and pair them together all the time. If this didn't work with anyone in the class I'd be talking to other teachers trying to set up joint projects with a like-minded child (don't mean you should be doing this, her teacher should). Go into school and be clear about how distressing this is for both of you. Best of luck.

Hi my DD was the same in year 4 and it was awful, I do feel for you. Got quieter and sometimes stroppy and then one night it all came out. Very similar situation by the sounds of it. DD was playing with much younger kids, if at all and joined any lunchtime club to avoid the playground.

Turned out that the groups of girls were well established and she felt she couldn't join in. When she did manage it, she said the games they played were not wanted to play so she wandered off and was alone.

I explained, very tentatively, that not all the games will be exactly what she wants but it was important to join in and play and be with the group. This so when they get bigger and the games change she will be part of it and will have made the friendships.

It took some time but now, year 5 she is happy, popular and a completely different girl from 18 months ago.

I am not suggesting your DD joins in with the girls she doesn't actually like but perhaps sticking with a group and staying and joining in, even if the games are not to her liking, may pay off...

It's not easy and wasn't for my DD, took months.

Also sent her to a drama summer school, just a week. As mentioned above, fantastic for confidence building and really helped.

I asked her about things again this morning and she said that even with the other groups, even if she tries to join in they ignore her or run away from her.

Am waiting for the learning mentor to phone me back.

In my stroppy lioness mother moments I think "well she's beautiful, kind, bright, mature and has a (quiet) sense of humour - they probably exclude her because they are jealous"

Girls can be so horrid to each other. Primary was fraught for my DD, but at secondary she discovered lunchtime clubs and became good friends with girls of all ages through drama and music. This really made a difference. She is now about to start her final year at school and it has been a very happy time.

I hope your DD manages to find some like-minded friends as they are important to girls of this age. Go for a group though rather than a new best friend. I too hated the way you had a best friend then they split up with you and told everyone your secrets. Has put me off having a best friend since actually.

I can really feel your pain OP.

Ds has SN so didn't really make friends. So when DD went to school I was really looking forward to the flurry of play date invites and requests to bring xx home for tea.

Sadly they have never come. DD is so painfully shy whilst at school that she just seems to flit around the edges of friendships. Children like her but she just doesn't make friends.
I have spoken to the teacher about it but as she said, children are friendly with her and she them, it isn't as if she is unsociable.

It is hard when i see her playing alone

Emkarna.
I can understand your concern. Infact though, just before I read about your DD playing the violin I was about to suggest singing in the choir. If she is reading music and obviously musical(?) joining a local choir , especially in church, is a brilliant thing for children who are serious , and want to try hard and do well. They dont want silly children who fool about.
My DS was at a states school till year 3, and is now in year 5 and he is a chorister. It has really been good for him as it has matured him and given him the discipline he needs. He is at a Chorister school too which is very musical which has helped him mature and take education seriously, but also he has had such fun too, in smaller classes with really nice, well behaved children . No one is allowed to muck, be rude or bully others, and school work is taken seriously, so each child reaches his/her full potential. Could you afford to try to get her into a private/prep school ? If she got a scholarship, the fees would be 40% off. Her serious attitude would be admired and certainly not scoffed at.
I have had 3 children , the big two are grown up and educated in a Comprehensive . The difference of private schooling is I feel the kind caring excellent behaviour of the children at a fee paying school. Plus the caring committed attitude of the staff.
The pupils are not little snobs/priggs, they are lovely well behaved, well mannered, mature, pleasant, happy and confident children.
A place where you daughter might fit in, and be happy.

Some children make much better adults...Unfortunately, they need to bide their time. My DD was always a bit of an outsider at school - though had a small, constant group of friends - and has now found much more of a niche at University. I have to say it got worse at secondary school, but better at sixth form. You might find secondary breaks the patterns that have been going on at primary, and it will be a success. Some of those Queen Bees are such a PITA. I loathed school which didn't help.

Is there anything you can do yourself to bring out her playful side so she can relate to others better? She may want to loosen up and has no idea how to, but you can make a conscious effort to be playful with her. Not that she should be forced to be something she isn't.

There is a fine balance between building confidence and seeing everyone else as the problem. If you can stand back a bit (and I found it really hard), it might be better for her and you.

Poor OP... it's hard, it really is. :(

It's going to get better though, in secondary school. Even though there are likely to be more 'groups' and daftness and some pupils not included or thought popular, there are generally more extra-curricular activities. You say that you daughter enjoys the violin? Our school had an orchestra it was very keen to recruit for. That took care of several lunchtimes a week. There were also additional sports 'try outs', lunchtime language sessions, a library to sit in and read and computer club. Even if your daughter doesn't do any of these sessions, there will be children who have similar interests to your DD and she'll have that in common with them so be able to engage.

Yes, there will still be 'Queen Bees', there always will but, as children get older, these Queen Bees lose their gloss and appeal and start looking silly.

Tell your DD that it's ok to not run with the crowd, it will serve her well in future. She can still have friends - she needs to be a friend to make them - be kind to somebody, show an interest in what somebody else is doing, that kind of thing. Perhaps she is a little shy and introverted? Nothing wrong with that but it relies on others doing the first moves and if they're shy too...

Chin up, emkana, it WILL get better. :)

I know it's a year away, but I'm sure she'll find it all changes when she goes to secondary - there will be a much wider base of children and therefore more who share her interests and are "like" her.

I would ask the school if they can try to engineer some suitable pairings in class time at least. You could also ask if they do "circle of friends", though your DD might not want them to befriend her in a "being nice to x" way. The school need to know that she is unhappy about this and try and do something about it. Maybe there might be a similar child in another year group they could pair her up with a bit?

If she's unhappy that she doesn't have any friends in her class, then she needs to adapt her behaviour to make some. I know we're all supposed to say that people should be who they are and proud of it even if everyone else in their peer group rejects them for it, but this approach is making your DD a very lonely little girl. I do honestly believe that your DD would be much happier if she decided to be a bit more flexible. She seems to be fairly picky - she doesn't want to join in with her old friends, the popular girls. She doesn't want to talk about boys with another group (can quite understand why she doesn't want to join the 'naughty' group though). Only one group is actively being unpleasant to her by excluding her (I know you said some of the other groups have now started not wanting to play with her, but if she's previously made it clear that she doesn't want to be friends with them then she can't just expect to waltz up and join a group as and when she sees fit - she'll have to put a lot of work in). A lot of this loneliness is self-imposed because the other kids don't meet her standards, rather than because all of the other kids refuse to let her join in. If the kids she wants to play with run away, yet she rejects the ones that do want to play with her, she is going to have to either accept the situation, or change it herself. She certainly can't expect the other children to adapt themselves to become the sort of people she wants to befriend. TBH, I think she would do well to learn that it's sometimes very useful to rub along happily in the company of "mates" who you spend time with due to circumstances, even if you know they're not going to be your bff.

I was a lot bit of a square wheel at school and I kind of agree with ZombiePlan. OK for a best friend it may be worth waiting for exactly the right person to come along but no harm in compromising a bit in order to have company in the meantime. It is hard to understand how her aims and interests and outlook are so different that she can't find someone to play with. Anyway, I'm not sure just telling her to tough it out is the right answer - a year is a long time to be unhappy and lonely.

I think that although the orchestra and playing the violin are great, she might not get much of a chance to actually talk to other kids there.

Perhaps you could try taking her to something else as well? something with more of an obvious social slant like Drama or Woodcraft Folk? I know from experience there are certain classes which are more like rushing in and out, doing the activity and going home again and some which are more relaxed.

I so agree with zombieplan.

Telling your child that she should be proud of who she is, and that she shouldn't have to change, is giving your child no coping strategies whatsoever on how to deal with friendships.

Follow zombieplan's advice because in my opinion that is the help your child needs.

The coping strategy needs to be opening up other opportunities outside of school - numerous possibilities have already been suggested. School is not the be all and end all, though changing schools is certainly an option. It is VERY important that your child is proud of who she is, and that you keep telling her that. While of course we all need to adapt to our social surroundings, changing who we are to suit others is a disturbing message. It's like any relationship at any stage of life - if you're not who you are then it feels pretty flaky and doesn't really make you happy. There is a cultural problem in this country that being bright, serious, liking school work etc is not 'popular' behaviour. I have taught in other countries where the complete opposite is the case. Numerous people have mentioned Woodcraft on this thread, please consider it, as it places a huge emphasis on cooperation, inclusion, accepting difference etc etc, and above all it is lots of fun. I agree with BarbarianMum that a year is a long time to tough it out and be unhappy - you need to take immediate action to open up other social opportunities for her.

Emkana, I really feel for you. I feel so much of this is just luck. I have three very serious little girls. One not so little anymore. Two found friends in primary very easily. One of them didn't. The middle one is in a class with girls who were all so very different from her and although she has tried she has never settled. The teachers said she was well liked by the class and that she seemed to play a little with everyone. However, she was always excluded from birthday parties and sometimes I felt she was being bullied. It was subtle and so nothing seemed to ever solve the problem completely. It is nothing to do with your child. She does not need to change. She will find her place one day. Mine have all found lots of friends in strings groups orchestras and much more so in secondary. She is well lkied in all other areas just as your dd is.

They have just been unlucky. I am sure if 15 random women were picked for us to be shut in a room with for a number of years we would be very lucky to find a best friend also. I have never found one at work

Does your school have playground squad/buddy system?

My son's school has a little sign on the playground wall saying "Stop here to play" and the playground squad (6 children specially selected for being kind and fair) play organised games with the children who turn up.

Is it a fairly small one form entry school? My DC are in a school of this size. If so the potential friendship pool may just be too small for your DD, especially if she is a little "selective"?

I hope the learning mentor helps emkana....really I do...I keep thinking about your troubles.

On the topic of being "selective". My dd tells me she often has a choice of playing various games that are basically a form of relational bullying towards some member of the group. She doesn't want to engage in this kind of "play" and so she does exclude herself in a way. I would rather she did. Perhaps your dd is the same.

I really got this thread all wrong if some of you got the impression that dd is a bit too full of herself to consider playing with these lovely girls who are oh so willing to include her, but have now given up due to her attitude.

Let me explain again: From year 2 to the end of year 4 dd was happily best friends with (but not to the exclusion of all others) this girl who then decided to reinvent herself as the queen bee. She openly dropped dd and surrounded herself with a group of admirers instead. For a good while dd kept trying to make it work in a group, mainly because she still grieves for the best friend that she had. But I encouraged her to give up because how soul-destroying is it to try to fit into a group that doesn't want you?

Then theres the group who is often openly hostile to her - but sometimes not, which is when dd will play with them, because she does want to have friends.

Then theres the two girls who love boys - I really cannot bring myself to encourage dd to start enjoying going on about boys every playtime. I mean, really?

And then there's the naughty girls who don't look that kindly on my "goody two shoes" dd either.

And that's it.

There are two other classes in the year, but they all keep separate. When I asked dd if she could maybe make friends with girls in the other classes she said it doesn't work that way. Not sure if that's true, but that's how dd feels.

Nothing of importance to add OP, just wanted to say I really hope things work out for your daughter and the learning mentor has some suggestions.

You really could be writing about my daughter... There was the girl who came round so many times for playdates and/or meals (never once reciprocated), and thanks my daughter at school with "X can borrow my pencil, but you can't..." Another one seemed like a good friend - gave up on her when she invited my daughter round for a sleepover one time, which was then followed up with, "Sorry, you can't come after all, too many other girls are coming." When she's asked to join in with the groups in the playground she gets, "No, we're playing with Y."

I've talked to the teachers and just get, "Well your daughter seems a bit stand-offish." No shit Sherlock, she's been rejected so many times and been in tears so many times, that she's had enough!

Helping out at the school recently I overheard a bunch of them talking - "Are you still going out with Z?" "No, I've dumped him!" "Who are you going out with now then?" "No-one." This from 10-11 year olds . To whoever said that kids have to fit in with those around them, there are some kids I would rather my daughter didn't fit in with!

Do they mix the forms up every year Emkana? If so, then it might get better next year. If not could you plead a special case for your DD to move classes (i'm sure it could be could be covered as an admin thing to the kids).

I feel your pain OP. My DD (11) has simply never been popular. She makes friends really easily on holiday etc, but for some reason at school (and even at nursery many years ago) she does not really fit in with a group. It is hard to know how our children appear to others. She was deliberately excluded from a party on Friday evening to which the rest of her friendship group were going. The party girl told my DD it was because she had not been invited to DD's party - but we were restricted to numbers so she could only invite a few. There were others invited who had not even had parties so I could not see how that could stack up. I was hoping things would improve at secondary school but there is a very small intake this year so there will not be many opportunities.

I keep telling myself that I am not friends with anyone now that I was friends with in primary school - but is that necessarily such a good thing?

Great advice on suggesting to your DD that she tries to be more flexible, and I really hope that things improve for her soon.