to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

" 23 weekers don't have a fighting chance! You must know that in your line of work queenmary surely? "

A damn site more of a fighting chance than an aborted baby.
ALMOST half of babies born prematurely at 23 weeks now survive, according to research that undermines a central plank of the abortion law.
A study by University College London Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust shows a survival rate of 42% for babies born at an age at which they may be legally aborted for social reasons.

The scientific paper is backed by two other sets of research that show a much higher proportion of premature babies now survive than did in 1990 when abortion law was last amended.
( www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article547524.ece )

" Did you say you were a midwife or a SCUBU nurse? "

A midwife and a nurse.
I have worked in SCBU.

ther was a case, many years ago, when a father attempted to make a woman have his baby even though she wanted an abortion.

Bubbley - are you suggesting that there should be some kind of legal path for men to go down to attempt to stop women aborting a pregnancy? Wouldn't this often mean that by the time a judge has said it's OK for the woman to have the abortion the foetus would be many weeks older?

Ultimately women always should have the final say as it is they who would be giving birth and going through the pregnancy.

This gets more and more ridiculous. I am amazed by people who would force anyone to go through with pregnancy and labour if they don't want to.

winnybella it's the logical conclusion when people - often due to religion - but not always stick rigidly to their beliefs regardless of the circumstance. The self-imposed rules themselves come to be more important than the reason they made the rules in the first place. And cruel things can be easily dismissed.

most of the pro choice posters on this thread have said they would respect a woman's right to choose for any reason up to 40 weeks, so as not to muddy the waters. Isn't that rigidly sticking to self imposed rules? There is no actual need for an abortion at term surely? You can have the baby removed, it is just cruelty to end a pregnancy at 40 weeks when having a live baby is just as easy. It is coming out either way.

Yes, such a case would be so very rare, but probably about as rare as the case of the pregnant 9 year old.

queenmary I'm going to ask you again- would you really consider forcing a 9yo to continue a pregnancy?

But it is the Father's baby as well so should he not have a say? Is it not possible that it cause psychological problems in some cases for the Father, knowing he could have had a child but it was aborted?

Also, why is it on any other thread where people are happy about someone being pregnant they refer to the fetus as "a tiny baby", yet on all these threads it is a clump of cells?

Sorry I felt the need to post as that just didn't make sense to me, and I do agree abortions should be allowed in certain cases (rape, physical problems with the baby or Mother etc) but not to the extent that they are currently being used.

No - because he doesn't become a father until the baby is born. So he doesn't have a say.

Strawberry, why do you think a potential baby conceived through rape isn't as deserving of protection and the right to life as other potential babies?

winnybella read my post @ 13.30, just under where you originally asked that Q.

I don't believe that, in an ideal world anyone who got pregnant would keep it, but you would have a hard time fighting to stop women who have been raped being allowed to abort.

So why should the Mother have the whole say? Say for instance she wants an abortion just because she doesn't want the baby at that time, the Father however in this case will end up with serious psychological problems if she aborts.

Why does the Mother's say matter more?

Er...because she is the one who has to be pregnant for 9 months and give birth, for one?

OP yanbu

on another thread I made some comments and got called PRO LIFE, I FFS I have had an abortion! but still thunk they are shitty things, necesssary evil

So? If it was a case of neither of them using contraception, she took the risk to get pregnant.

Say that it would be a normal problem free pregnancy, and the Father would be more damaged by her aborting than she would carrying to term.

That hardly seems fair that they could make a baby together while taking risks yet she can just abort the child.

It hardly seems fair? So its fair that a woman should be forced to be pregnant for the best part of a year and give birth to a child she does not want?

Is there something wrong with you?

on another thread I made some comments and got called PRO LIFE, I FFS I have had an abortion! but still thunk they are shitty things, necesssary evil

People are very black and white about it aren't they?

if that is the case a man can stop a women from having a termination, as he is taking control over her body why not allow a man to force a women to have a termantion becasue he does not want to be a father

great idea

there was a case about 10 years ago, anyway he lost

MsTeak - In this case she would have taken the risks, if she didn't want to get pregnant she should have used contraception or refused sex until the man did.

So it's fine to force the man to have psychological problems? And you ask what's wrong with me!?

No one ever thinks about the man. If it's a case of the woman having psychological problems everyone would be fighting for her yet when it comes to the opposite gender, no one gives a shit.

i think its seriously scary to imagine a world where the father of an unborn child would be able to force a woman to continue that pregnancy.

apart from all else, wouldn't it in fact be impossible for the man to prove it was his baby until after it was born? so legally it could never happen?

strawberry - if they use contraception, and the contraception fails, it is the woman who gets pregnant, not the man.

Freudian But the man wouldn't have to step in as a Father beyond financial means if the Mother was prepared to go through with the pregnancy alone.

MrsRavel But you're fine living in a world where it's okay to kill unborn children for social reasons?!

And I never said if they used contraception, I said if they didn't.

why bother trying to turn in it in to men v women. can we force a man to have a vasectomy, no and should we be able to, no. why because it would take away him having a choice over his own body

apart from all else, wouldn't it in fact be impossible for the man to prove it was his baby until after it was born? so legally it could never happen?

DNA testing is availabel before birth but not until the third trimester I believe

Was there not a thread about how a man needs written permission from his wife to get a vasectomy? Loads of people were outraged by it.

Strawberry, you might have heard that contraception isn't foolproof. Surely you're not so naive as to assume anyone who gets pregnant didn't use any contraception?

As for "forcing a man to have psychological problems", thats a big load of crap and you know it. No-one thinks about the men? What about all the millions of men who walk away when a woman gets pregnant and they don't want it? The woman can't walk away, can she? What about all the single mothers...of whom there would be a whole lot more if you made sure they couldn't have abortions.

Women decide whether to continue with a pregnancy because it is THEIR BODY. Are you actually suggesting that a man should be able to impregnate a women and then force her to have a child she doesn't want, and then hand it over to him? Really?
So yes, I wonder...what is wrong with you?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/825234-to-think-that-a-man-shouldn-39-t-need-to/AllOnOnePage

So it appears that right has already been taken away.

My friend fell pregnant on the pill,

She didn't want another child, wasn't very maternal & suffers horrendously in pregnancy, so she took the MAP (with her partners consent, eventually) & it didn't work.

So they decided that it was meant to be. The father vowed to stand by her, said he really wanted the baby, that he would commit to her etc etc blah blah. They got engaged, he was about to move in....then one day he just pissed off. Never to be seen again. She text him/emailed him antenatal appt times, scan pics, (she had a lot as she was v sick & bleed almost the entire way through the pregnancy). She text/called him several times when she went into labour & after the birth. Mailed him photos etc.

She never heard from him again. As a single mother she raised her baby, along with her 10yr old daughter, going back to work 3 weeks after the birth to be able to pay the bills, working all hours for the same end. Just to pay for food/bills. She had no choice after he left. He moved after a while, changed jobs, and contact details, so she couldn't chase him for maintenance OF A CHILD HE SAID HE WANTED & WOULD SUPPORT.

The daughter found him on fb. He doesn't want to know.

Tell me, did he ever have a right to talk my friend into having that baby?