to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

mrsR
" you're not making any sense. abortion is about offering abortion... errr, yes it is "

Well sorry but this sentence doesn't make any sense either.

actually yes the medical profession do often use the word foetus, especially in the early stages. i've had lots of early scans in all my pregnancies and the word foetus was definitely used rather than baby.

queenmary you said "abortion is about offering one choice, abort"

i was just a bit curious as to what else abortion could be about. if you mean abortion clinics are about offering one choice, then you may be right, although my experience was different, and another poster commented that her experience was different too.

queen mary i hope you dont express your opinions to teh women in your care?

That's right MrsR.
One choice: abort.
Hardly much of a choice for a woman who is in a crisis but doesn't WANT to abort.
Many women cry when they are going in to a clinic and say "but I have no choice!"

mrsr
" i was just a bit curious as to what else abortion could be about. if you mean abortion clinics are about offering one choice, then you may be right, although my experience was different, and another poster commented that her experience was different too "

Interesting.
So what other options and practical support did your clinic offer you in order to help you keep your baby?

but women who don't want to abort DO have a choice. they are not being forced to have one by the state, or by pro-choicers, or by pro-abortionists, or by marie stopes. in fact having an abortion is a fairly proative choice, isn't it, in the sense that if you didn't want one, you could let nature take its course and have the baby.

i suspect when they cry and say they have no choice, what they actually mean is that, as i felt when it happened to me, it is the least worst option of a bunch of bloody awful ones.

they didn't offer me practical support, because as i've already said i didn't need practical support. however they were extremely kind and helpful whilst i sat there in tears for an hour trying to work through what i wanted to do... and they certainly didn't say, "well mrsr, it sounds like you should have an abortion!". and even after the initial appointment, when i turned up on the day, there was still a conversation about 'are you sure this is what you want to do?' and 'there is still time for you to wait before you make this decision if you need it'

CoteDAzur

The stunning ignorance of your comment deserves repeating :

No midwife palpated my uterus to give vague predictions at any point, because where I live, pregnancies are followed by real doctors with access to modern technology. How a fetus grows and in which position he lies is all determined without having to be manhandled by an ignorant judgmental witch like you

I'm just going to leave that there I think.
No point in discussing that one is there?

" say "but I have no choice!""

They mean that out of all the available choices, abortion is the one that makes most sense, given their particular circumstances. That although they would have liked another baby, they can't afford it, or their family situation is not stable enough to have a baby, or they are with an abusive man, or whatever.

What they don't mean is "I wish the midwife told me she could come and help out after baby is born"

queenmary are you anti abortion? your posts indicate that you are but you seem to object to the term.

" But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly "

Yeah, that's pretty much what happens.

and you know what, to me it WAS a baby, despite being only 5 weeks, and i will always feel terribly terribly sad about it... so you can use emotive language as much as you like, because it tallies with how i feel/felt about it... but it doesn't change the fact that for me it was a 'necessary evil'.

Of course you will "leave it there". What can you possibly say?

There is nothing ignorant in that post, by the way. That is what it is.

" queenmary are you anti abortion? your posts indicate that you are but you seem to object to the term "

I call myself pro life.
But I'm not as sensitive as you and others here about what I get called.
And considering that within the last couple of days I've been called "shit that won't flush" and an "ignorant judgemental witch" is just as well really.

sorry was you there queenie? yes she sat down with me for over an hour discussing how i would deal emotionally and financially and that history would not repeat itself (as my ex had to make the point that i was going to be what i never wanted to be and that was a single mother)and how i would deal with the situation i was in, she spoke about how i must be allowed to make the decision myself and told my ex off for trying to push me into making a decision i was not wanting to make

this is what i needed to hear, she went way beyond what she needed to do. i knew deep down i was not going to have a termination but i cold have been unsure she jsut helped me feel stronger that i could deal with my situation on my own

but are you anti abortion or do you support the fact that abortion is legal and available for women in the UK?

My view is that any woman should be able to have an abortion with as little wait as possible for whatever reason she desires. For women that have multiple abortions there should be support and recognition that this can be indicative of emotional needs, I also think that for the safety of those women mirina coils should be fitted as routine unless there are good reasons not to.

If you consider a fetus is life and one worth more than the rights and life of the mother, aside from being wrong, you should consider that in the case of rape, incest and severe disabilities.

Either it's life or it's not.

" yes she sat down with me for over an hour discussing how i would deal emotionally and financially and that history would not repeat itself "

So she had a discussion with you?
Not quite the same as actual factual practical support is it?

Cote....I am a regular old timer and namechanger, I just have to say throughout my whole time on MN I can't think of anyone that posts such spot on, informative, considered and sharp posts.

I love you!!!

" but are you anti abortion or do you support the fact that abortion is legal and available for women in the UK "

I do not support the legality of abortion. Shorthand: I am anti abortion.
You do support the legality of abortion. Shorthand: You are pro abortion.

practical support queen?

are any of the pro-life charities going to go out and work to bring in the extra money needed for thsi chidl they are so keen for me to have? are any of them going to make it's fatehr have a relationship with it that wont damage it? are they going to provide free life-long counselling for it and for me? are they going to pay the extra costs of school trips, holidays, travel, clothes? are they going to provide someone to be the extra adult to come swimming with me and my dcs because i can take two on my own but not 3? what about my loss of earnings and career prospecst while raise this child they want me to have? are they going to speak to my employers and ask them for a favour? ask them to continue paying me even though im not giving anything to the company?

i support the legality of abortion which means i support the fact that it is legally available for women to choose if taht is what they wish. supporting it's legality is not promoting abortion.