David Cameron welfare reforms-no family will receive more than £25,000 a year.

[Hammy02]

Good idea? I think so. I can't believe a single family receives this much already in benefits. It is about the same as the average income so it would be ridiculous for any one family to have more in benefits than someone that works?

This thread feels like it was designed for me.
My dh earned roughly 25k after tax
We have 4 children
He has been made redundant so we are now starting to claim benefits
We are trying to move even though we recently moved as our rent is almost double the amout we will recieve in benefit. Noone wants a family of six on HB

but
we won't be receiving anywhere near 25k in benefits so it really does have to be exceptional circumstances for someone to get that and excepting people with disabilities etc it seems like plenty for the state to be paying, the equivilent of a 'normal' wage.

Peachy - I don't want to discriminate or treat badly people who have drug or alcohol problems. I was just trying to explain how, legitimately, people with these problems can be entitled to DLA. And also how giving DLA does not address the problems these individuals experience.

"Want a massive rise in mentally ill people living on the streets? You got it."

TBH I don't think it will be cuts to benefits that will see a large increase in mentally ill people sleeping on the streets. What will lead to this is the cut in monies to support people in tenancies, etc.

There are a number of projects that support seriously mentally ill people to live in their house and look after themselves. Most of this has now been cut. So yes some people will probably get evicted and end up on the streets.

I do think, though, that to be entitled to benefits you must do everything possible to get better, eg if you have depression and claim that that stops you from working, then you should take anti depressants and take counselling in an attempt to help yourself.

I've seen posters in the past claiming that they haven't been able to work for years as they suffer from depression but then go on to say that they won't take anti depressants.

Same for a poster who claimed that because she had PTSD from childbirth 5 years previously, she wasn't able to work. FGS get treatment!

I think people are being somewhat simplistic.
What about the person who has schizophrenia who uses drugs/alcohol to self medicate?
Would that come under the "druggie/alcoholic claiming DLA"?
There are often underlying health problems contributing to the addiction. I'm not saying it's true in all cases.
As for depression, one of the worst features is the inability to seek help. Often a crisis has to occur to enable the person to seek help. Mental health is a complex issue.

'I've seen posters in the past claiming that they haven't been able to work for years as they suffer from depression but then go on to say that they won't take anti depressants.'

Anti-depressants aren't the solution for everyone. Depression and MH are complex issues. Part of the issue with depression is that you are too depressed to see yourself out of the situation or feel you are even worth of anyone's time or money to do so.

'Same for a poster who claimed that because she had PTSD from childbirth 5 years previously, she wasn't able to work. FGS get treatment'

I suffer from PTSD. I have been begging for 'treatement' for years but none is forthcoming. Where do you suppose I go to get treatment? What 'treatment' do you propose?

Ok, I don't pretend to know much about this subject and am very open to being educated so please don't jump on me. I'll also freely declare that I'm pretty much on the left, politics-wise.

But (and putting disability entirely to one side for a moment), here's the thing - I'm a single mum with one DS, I rent out part of my house to minimise costs, I moved countries when my marriage broke down in order to get a higher paying job (a 30 hour flight from my nearest family), I have insurance policies coming out of my ears (income protection, life insurance, mortgage protection, you name it) to minimise the risk, as far as I possibly can, of ever having to rely on the State. I'd love to have another child but I can't afford it so DS will be an only child.

I do believe wholeheartedly that there should be a safety net for when the going gets tough. That could easily be me one day. But, the reality is that there are families out there where 2nd, 3rd and 4th children are born when the parent or parents are already receiving benefits (not sure about UK figures but here in NZ it's something like 20% of children born are to beneficiaries). I just don't see that this can be right either. On that basis, a cap does seem - at face value - like a reasonable move, although ideally I'd like to see it accompanied by more investment in education and uni fees for disadvantaged children to enable and encourage them to move out of poverty for themselves. I also don't see that people should be paid a benefit to stay in the area of their choice when there may be cheaper accommodation elsewhere.

Oh, and - to RobF - the trickledown theory of wealth creation is well and truly dead. Wealthy bankers and the like don't add to the economy in the way they like to believe - especially when so many do so much to avoid paying their taxes. Phillip Green is a classic example, sadly. On the whole I reckon more of us would be better off (or at least feel better off - which actually is the real battle) with an economy that encouraged an equitable spread of wealth.

Glitter - Yes some people with serious mental health issues who have symptoms such as hallucinations do self medicate with drugs and alcohol. And of course people can have physical health problems because of drug and alcohol abuse e.g. amputations amongst older alcoholics isn't uncommon.

But I was trying to explain how alcohol and drug abuse can mean that someone is entitled to DLA - without there being any other diagnosed reasons. And that although there needs to be help given, money is not the answer.

Although this does affect only a small number of people, it doesn't help with the negative perception of DLA by some people.

I think the problem with a cap is the blanket rule.

It seems like a lot of money to a lot of people (me anyway) but until you look into the individual circumstances and needs of the individual family you just cannot apply blanket policies like that. Why should children who were not asked to be born suffer because society has deemed their parents selfish?

The other issue is that very few people are geting £25k but this is a figure banded about by the government in order to cause resentment towards those claiming any benefits.

A further issue is that in those places where benefits are close to £25k, all the money is going from the tax payer directly to line the pockets of Tory-voting-landlords. The family simply get accomodation, not money.

Now you could argue that those families could move out of the expensive areas of town and into ghettos, I suppose, but that isn't good for them or the country or crime levels.

Lesley disagree becyause there will be a sigbnificant number of people with an invisible disability completely out of teh system

Can;t get DLA / ESA? have yo sogn on

Signing on? have to attend work palcement

fail to attend due to MH isues? all benefits stop for a period

= no rent

= homelessness

Scroob I agree about investment in ecucation. I've been all but formally accepted for a social work conversion course for 2013 (when the youngestv starts FT school)s dh's busiest season we could make it work. there is no longer a bursary available that will cover the fees. So another thing I can't do (yes I get that TA work is also term time only and I do apply but having a degre means that I can't take the NVQ course the schools require locally- the college did try and sort it but we couldn;t manage to find a solution that didn't invovle me paying huge amounts I simplly do not have.

That fore me is the thing that upsets Me I guess: I am willing to do what it takes to get back on my feet but as cuts happen across the board more routes are closed.

Lesley, yes I do take your point. However, I think Peachy was suggesting that drug abuse is rarely the only or starting story.

People 'usually' abuse drugs and alcohol for a reason. Self-esteem caused by poverty/bullying/drug-addicted parents? Undiagnosed MH conditions? Undiagnosed disability? Traumatic life experience that wasn't addressed?

Generally, normal, sane, healthy people do not chose drugs, at least not past the experimental stage. As a normal, sane, healthy person it can be extremely hard to see why someone would, which is surely evidence itself that there is something else going on.

The housing benefit cap applies o disabled famillies.

If we move otside this village we lose the SN placement (or rather entitlement to transport, there isn't a closer placement).

All the other schools have waiting lists; therefore ds3, who has failed in MS already, would be without an education.

Yes thanks starlight I was

Oh yes... that's right... we do still have housing benefit cap. We're fortunate we're in social housing as if we were in private rented we couldn't actually afford to top up the housing benefit for a property appropriate to our needs (deemed appropriate by consultant, occupational therapist and social worker)

yes i am being hit on the Hb cap yet I can not move anywhere else there is no where suitable even the council have nowhere suitable( i am being forced into legal action against the council to get suitable housing ) .yet there is no allowance for circumstances .

Peachy I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with? Of course there are people with hidden disabilities not in the system. But the projects that had been provided through supporting people money gave a lot of practical support to people who would struggle to maintain their own tenancies and not be a nuisance to other neighbours.

This could be because of mental health problems or alcohol or drug abuse. Now this support has been largely withdrawn and the chances of some of these people getting evicted and ending up on the streets is very high.

Of course there will be people who were never part of this system of support. But that doesn't invalidate the fact that those who were in the system may struggle to keep a tenancy without support.

glitterknickaz

i am in that postion of needing to find £200 a month for mine and it is not even fully suitable

I wasn't disagreeing that those exist Lesley

Just saying a lot moe people may fall into that group as a result of these cuts

If tehre was enough social housing this would be far less of an issue. For example we'd like to move to a city nearer home- there are more jobs in both our fields, more chances for some chidlcare (still a trek but no bridge toll to find), friends so we would not have the same level of isolation.

no LL will touch us: those that take the JB proportion we get (a %) don;t even look at self employed people.

if we could get a council house then we'd likely amke the move in a year or so, but there is none available and no provision ATM for someone to get on a list for the reason of work. It has to be close links with area- and my family are in a slightly different area but there's no work there at all.

It's here or emergency accom; emergency accom would be undoable, ds1 wouldn;t use a shared toilet due to his ASD, every time one needed the toilet all 5 of us would have to fit in if Dh at uni becuase theyc an;t be unsupervised...... SSD have already said foster care would be needed.

peachy that' shocking paying out for foster care rather than helping a family get accommodation. I'm sure that would actually cost more financially but I guess they don't care as its different budgets. I know from experience they certainly don't care about psychological impact, well they do personally I have felt they go out of their way to make you feel like shit on their shoe. They have reduced me to tears a lot. Makes me that they would actually take their prejudices out on a child and :(.

This world would be a nicer place if people were just able to show compassion as there is nothing worse than being kicked when you are down. sadly this will never happen as anybody showing compassion to anybody is viewed as weak. :(

xstitch... Honestly, I've found that if you behave like a victim, you get treated like one. I've seen your posts on many threads and I'm torn between wanting to give you a hug and wanting to give you a good shake.

You have a DD, you have a life and there are other people who have it worse than YOU. Get what you're entitled to and show your DD that she has a Mum with a backbone. I hate reading your suicidalposts, hate it... they never change and there's no way that your DD isn't picking up on this mood either.

Plenty of people work all week for £15,000 or less.

And if they are families renting they get housing benefit plus CTC and child benefit. Any renters earnin g less than about 20k can get help with rent via housing benefit.

What about single people though?

It's wrong that we have made having children into a financial asset. That's supposed to be one of the things that seperates the developed world from the developing world.

I haven't given up completelylying I am still applying for jobs. I know others have it worse than me I am just so angry at myself for being so useless. One of the last jobs I applied for has been re-advertised as previous applicants need not apply. Its soul destroying.