David Cameron welfare reforms-no family will receive more than £25,000 a year.

[Hammy02]

Good idea? I think so. I can't believe a single family receives this much already in benefits. It is about the same as the average income so it would be ridiculous for any one family to have more in benefits than someone that works?

The trouble is, bottom line, without the money created by the city there are no benefits.

Every time a Banker/Broker/Dealer/Trader/Underwriter/whatever... moves to Geneva he takes 50% of his salary out of the tax system, that's before he buys a car or two or has a new kitchen installed or pays for a Nanny or even what his wife spends on botox . This country isn't blessed with natural resources, our farming industry is capped and controlled by europe, we have too many health and safety rules to make manufacturing worthwhile not to mention a minimum wage. Salaries under 45k a year have to be topped up in wtc because companies cannot afford to compete in a global Market.

Sometimes you have to be a realist rather than an idealist and look at where the money in the system actually comes from.

gooseberry bankers give us an example ogreed. Be careful who you idolise. CAMERON ruNS FROM ONE HEADLINE TO THE NEXT. ITS NOWT MUCH TO DO WITH POLICY.THE TOFF IS WORSE THAN BLAIR. HE WILL END UPOWITH AS MUCHCREDIBILITY AS CLEGG. NUFF SAID...hE TREATED DTHE LONDON DISABILITY MARCHWERS DREADFULLT...SAME OLD TORY

Bloody Hell Gabby! Have you got an alarm on your pc that goes off every time someone on MN mentions the B word?

exactly Edward. afterall the benefit claimant may not have to pay for things out of that amount such as council tax or rent and receive school meals, trips paid etc. it seems quite reasonable to me. by the time most people are taxed and pay council tax, mortgage, bills they have very little disposable income but have to be sensible and budget especially in the south east.

I still think people should limit

I do take on board though the thing about having disabled children. it must be difficult and I know it hits you in the pocket. have worked with special needs children in the past.

Hmm. I'm disabled. Very, by any measure (autism, cancer, faceblind, dyspraxic, spinal scoliosis, arthritis) and the last time I looked, my company that I co-own had paid just under £1million in taxes and VAT over the last couple of years. That pays for quite a few benefit packages, I think.

Amongst my other disabled friends and acquaintances, I can count a senior social worker, the head of a charity, several Vicars, one Bishop, several accountants and surveyors and lawyers, a top scientist, ...shall I go on? The notion that disabled people sit around being a drain on society and claiming benefit for nothing is utterly wrong. There are some people who genuinely cannot work or cannot find work (because employers won't hire them), but the idea that we're charity cases for society to fund is quite mistaken.

And good points about the amount we contribute to charities, to community, to family etc too.

One scrounging single mother of 3 gets the following:

Income support £3510
Child tax credits £8210
Mortgage interest support £1435 (pays 1/3 of actual costs).

I also get the following help;
Free school dinners £493 x 2
Council tax benefit worth £600ish

Child benefit we all get.

Around £15k I'd say.

£25k debate? clearly doesn't apply to many single parents.

What is the total number of UK families (single or other wise) with 4+ children? Not many. If I did have 4 (not going to) that would increase my child tax credits and child benefit nothing else, again way off the £25k

Haven't read all of thread, just though I'd give some real figures.

Rob grow up and stop being silly

you have no idea what i contribute to society .oh and do not think it could never happen to you .Less than 4 months ago I had no disablitys .Now due to an accident I am in a wheelchair and paryalised from the waist down it can happen to anyone

penandpaper i admit i fall into the single parents 4kids catergory .But all mine were when i was married and xh could not cope when last dc was born disabled so he walked away .then i became disabled myself so mine probably is one of those just above the cap limits .

Was not what i had planned at all

TheHumanCatapult does your exh contribute at all?

You probably need every penny as well, don't understand anyone that would have a problem with that.

Didn't we establish further upthread that the disabled claimants were actually taken out of these calculations?

Alouise

sorry that made me laugh , he left his job and got signed of by the gp due to back ache and mild depression so got incapcity benefit ( got turned down for Dla

.he pays £10 a fortnight to the csa .oh and his current g/f does not work and they are expecting a baby so i do not deny there are some that screw the system but for everyone that screws the system severla more genui9ne claiments are hurt oh and no he does not see or help with the children

penandpaper sadly people do as all they see is single parent of 4dc ,unless you knew me then more may be understood

alousie

some might but what other people do not realise that when the new system comes in that a lot will lose dla .
I may not get DlA mobility becuase i use a wheelchair and can propel myself around .Yet i can not get on a bus easily or a train without 24 hrs notice ,can not get a coach full stop and a step well i can not go either.So is not clear cut as people may think.

When i posted earlier people were suprised to find that i may well end up being capped but sadly it is the truth and same for many others

It seems that absent, non contributing parents are at the root of the benefit crisis. If that could be tackled head on and effectively the bill could be halved.

Is it really true peachy, that any hours you work will be deemed to be earning miminum wage whilst setting up a business? I agree that seems spectacularly shortsighted.

Contrary to Thatcher's Enterprise Allowance Schemes in the 80s which paid a higher than normal rate of benefits (if i recall - my brothwr did it) and also gave business advice. And I never thought I'd be quoting Thatcher as an example of how it could be done better!

My dc go to an inner city school where more than 60% of the children are on free school meals and most of their families live entirely on benefits through choice. Though we are in an area where there is employment mainly in the service sector, most of these jobs would provide the same amount as benefits, the result is most of these jobs are done by foreign workers. These families usually have low aspirations for a better life for themselves and their children. They are disconnected from the wider society so more likely to engage in asbo type behaviour ,petty crime such as dealing in skunk and have little social conscience for the problems they cause others and to wider society. They do not support their children at school and most of the children who are persisently late are from these families. They also tend to have unhealthy lifestyles claiming that if fag/booze/crap food was bad for you the government would ban it and if they became ill the NHS would sort them out. I believe in having a welfare state but it should only be a safety net not a lifestyle choice for able bodied adults who can work.

I think you hit the nail on the head ALOuiseG. I think the current system encourages men to make babies then walk away particularly if they are not married to the women. I think they should be made to contribute and take some responsbility.

Also the system seems to make it more worthwhile for the mum to be single and live apart from the man. crazy.

No alouise - people will always without a doubt post over and over again about cuts and the disabled even if the thread title had specifically said it had nothing to do with the diusabled but was targetting cuts for people who chose not to work - always the same people!!

You can always guarantee that their opther rant will be that the state we are in is soley because of the bankers and their bonuses and the fact that the government had to bail out the banks - these people completely deny that trickledown happens in the economy and bankers obviously contribute feck all!

"gooseberry bankers give us an example ogreed. Be careful who you idolise."

what the hell are you talking about ? exactly why do you think I idolise bankers? are you feeling alright?

madame

have you read my posts under the new dla reforms .I will more than likely not qualify for Dla so i will be capped so yes i think my viewpoint is valid

Gosh, Catapult, how awful about your accident. What a shock.

Yes I think Rob's post was very disablist. Which shouldn't be a word, in my opinion, but anyway

Bankers aren't one generic, single minded lump either. There are plenty of people within the banking industry who tried very hard to point out the errors that were being made, but when a government does not want to listen or acknowledge there is very little that individuals can do.

And for the record, some of the biggest current employers in the city happen to be the state owned banks. Make of that what you will.

TheHumanCatapult, your injuries sound absolutely horrendous but I feel that your vitriol should be directed at your ExH, who made vows to support you. The government didn't. No matter how much you personally contributed, the benefit system isn't an insurance policy. Unfortunately.

The benfit system is designed to support those that can not support themselves oh ad trust me i love to see my xh pay up .But since he can not and will not .I still need to put food on the table for dc to eat .still need roof over their heads etc .yet the caps will make that even harder .It is not a one size fits all unfortunatley

Alouise all im trying to say it is not as always clear cut about why people claim benefits and to madame under new reforms dla will go for a lot of people so they will be capped yet ours or ours dc disablitys will not go away .No matter how hard we wish