to ask how many allowances should be made for SN kids?

[PiousPrat]

DS1 is 11 and has a dx of ADHD and is undergoing investigation for Aspbergers. For the most part he adapts to the mainstream way of doing things and we have managed to find coping strategies for him that aren't disruptive for other people and don't draw attention to him unduly. He is however easily distracted, zones out a lot and processes things differently from his peers so despite seeming 'normal' for the most part, he obviously struggles with some things.

There have been a few occasions in the last year that have really riled me at the time, but looking back I wonder if I am being unreasonable in expecting other people (mainly his teachers or parents of his peers, he doesn't really encounter problems with his own age group) to give him a bit of extra time or help rather than getting wound up at him, writing him off as lazy or just excluding him from things.

As an example of the sort of thing I mean, and also the most recent; DS1 goes to scouts. The scouts go canoeing on a local stretch of water every week during the summer. We have a lift share system in place whereby one mum takes 5 of them to the canoeing, stays and brings them home as a) she is a parent helper and b) it is far enough away that it isn't worth leaving and coming home just to go back for them. In exchange for doing this, she then gets out of taking and fetching for the actual scout meetings for the whole year so it actually works out pretty even in terms of times each person takes.

DS1 can be quite slow in getting changed. He gets distracted, he sits and zones out after every piece of clothing unless he is kept on task. As a result of this, the first week they went canoeing the other 4 were waiting for him for nearly 15 minutes. I spoke to DS about it, we came up with ways he could be quicker and I tasked his brother to help in chivvying him along. Next week it took him 10 minutes longer than the others. Not great that they are kept waiting, but an improvement and a sign that he is putting some effort in. I still didn't think it very fair for the others to be kept hanging around, so I spoke to the leaders about sticking their head in the changing room if they got a chance, to remind him of what he needs to be doing and also got him a wetsuit so he only had one thing to take off, then lose and have to find again before finally stuffing it in his bag instead of a whole outfit.

Because he still came out after the others (the leaders didn't have time to pop in and hustle him along) the other mum is now refusing to take him at all. For the sake of those 10-15 minutes, he is missing out on the entire canoeing session which makes up a big part of the group bonding for his scout troup, which is his only social activity.

AIBU to think that it wouldn't kill her to cut him some slack, or perhaps knock on the changing room door herself and keep him on task? Or that the other kids having to wait a bit isn't actually the end of the world and it wouldn't do them any harm to learn a bit of tolerance?

I honestly seem to have lost all perspective on this, as i keep flitting between 'zomg my poor PFB, they are all so mean to him' and 'fair enough, he is inconveniencing other people, he should suck it up and accept it'

I have my big girl pants on, I can take it if the overall response is that I ABU about this specific example, but it also leaves me wondering how much it is reasonable to expect other people to make allowances for those with problems, especially invisible ones (assuming of course that they know about them)

[discobeaver]

Can't he just keep his wetsuit on and pul some waterproof trousers over the top to protect the car seats?
Change when he gets home, problem solved.
Wetsuits are a pain in the arse to get on and off, just leave it on, he'll still be warm.

[Jaspants]

I can see both points of view here - I have a DS with ASD of a similar age, who is easily distracted.

I share a run with another family to an extra curricular activity - their DS and DD both do it with DS and on the nights that DH works I have to drag DD along.

So when DS and his mate are mucking around in the changing room and mates sister is sat with soaking wet hair and DD is yawning her head off and has to be up for school in the morning then I get annoyed and want to leave them there.

It could be that this mother has very valid reasons that she cannot wait an extra 15 minutes?

As far as alternative solutions: have you considered applying for Direct Payments? DS had support from the DP system until the bastards withdrew the funding this enabled us to pay for someone to enable access to wider social opportunities - we used this to enable him to have 1:1 support when he went to cubs.

I agree that him getting changed before everyone else will also help in terms of more time to get changed and less distractions.

Could you go with the mother so that you can support him to get changed quickly? I'm assuming she must have a big car if she is taking 5 DCs so presumably a 7 seater would enable you to squeeze in.

In the short term, some of the taxi companies do school runs and have CRB checked drivers. One in particular operates a text service so they text make model and reg no when the taxi has been despatched and also when it has arrived to pick up, that may provide you with some reassurance that they are going to be collected?

[Bathsheba]

I suspect that Cubs/Beavers is similar to our Brownies group in that travel too and from activities has to be done in Uniform - we are told it is for insurance purposes, so it may be as this is an official scout activity that the same rules apply, so not changing may not be an option.

Is there a way in the summer to minimise the amount of clothes he wears - its not quite so easy with boys I suspect as it is with girls, but I know when I'm chaning mine for swimming that summer wear (tshiort, skirt, ankle socks) is so much easier than winter with tights and cardis and things.

Are the others missing out on the first 10-15 minutes of the canoeing as well - I presume they have to change into their wetsuits as well as out of them....In that case when it is a limited time activity I can see that it would tangibly be impacting on the others.

I have to confess that, at the end of a long day, I have been known to get grumpy at my NT DD1 for taking ages to get changed after swimming because I'm tired, I have the other younger 2 trying to get out, get home, twittering on about snacks and drinks and eneding the toilet and and and and.....then I look in the cubicle and DD1 has managed to take off a 2 piece tankini and put on some knickers, in what to me has seemed like 20 minutes but is actually 5.

Would something like a timer help focus him - a 5 minute egg timer for example...see how much he can get on before the timer runs out?

I have to agree with Bonsoir above - which is probably a first for me - whilst on the surface this woman isn't being very tolerant or giving many alowances, the actual problem is made worse by the fact that the single most obvious solution (you take him yourself) is excluded becuase you don't drive. if he has to miss out on all the canoeing sessions now, thenits a shame that the obvious solution can't be taken. Is there a reason you don't drive =- a medical one etc, or is it just something you don't do - if you could persuade the other Mum to do it for the rest of the term, you might be able to elarn yourself so the problem doesn;t exist by this time next year.

[Bluebell99]

I wonder if it is just that your son is slow at getting changed or maybe something else. It does sound sad for your son, but was he not able to adapt his behaviour if you said, look unless you get changed quickly then x won't be able to take you anymore. Maybe carting 5 children and helping is wearing her out, and driving 5 noisy children can be tiring, maybe she is at the end of her tether.

[tomhardyismydh]

I dont see how traveling to and from in or out of uniform would have any bearing on insurance of the group, especially as the group are not providing the travel.

[CinnabarRed]

My boys are too young for group activities, but I hope that when they are I'd be willing to help out with other children, SN or NT.

It is only 10 mins. The OP's DS is already getting out of the water 15 mins before the others, so asking him to stop even earlier is a bit much. (And I'm not sure it would help really - if he gets distracted in the extra time he already has, how is even more time going to help?)

The other mother already has to be there because she's a parent helper, so it's not on to suggest that her driving the children there and waiting for them is a big extra ask of her.

OP, you're not being unreasonable.

(Peachy - not wishing to hijack, but thank you for posting your Christmas cake recipe on MN. I've made it for the past couple of years, and it's fab. Last night DP, DS1 and I made it together as our wedding cake. )

[Bathsheba]

Maybe they have to be in uniform when they get to the canoeing place so that the leaders can easily see who is theirs and who isn't, to aid with counting numbers.

Same for when they leave - thye all gather together as a group before they are dismissed from the scout group'sm care into their own individual transports.

Like I say, I know thats the rules for our Brownie group - anything they do as brownies they must be in their brownie uniform with their promise badges.

[CinnabarRed]

And if the other children are cold and hungry waiting for the OP's DS, then surely the better solution would be for them to (i) get dried properly rather than pointlessly racing to be first out; and (ii) bringing snacks with them.

[tomhardyismydh]

i can see that would be a good idea baths

[posterofagirl]

I think the other parent is losing a valuable opportunity to teach her kids about inclusion. Surely the inconvenience of 10mins is not nearly as important as the life lesson that it is nice to be nice.

[skybluepearl]

ok, i'm taking th hard line here.

he has to learn to get ready with in the allocated time. I work with ASD (and ADHD) kids at a special eduational unit and they all have expectations on them in relation to time keeping. they are expected to arrive to lessons on time or eat/go to bed at a specific time. having dead lines is just how life is and he needs to learn to work within that framework. maybe you need to work on getting changed super fast at home to help him get changed quickly in the social situation.

maybe if you can't resolve things you need to take him and arrive 15 mins early so that he can get ready. does he need an extra 15 mins after the activity too - when he gets out of his wetsuit?

the other suggestion is that the other kids get on with the lesson while he takes his time and joins them late.

[brass]

Sorry but slagging the other mum off is unfair as we don't know her circumstances.

She has said she can't wait 15 minutes for DS1 but she hasn't said she won't give DS2 a lift. So she is hardly shirking her lift exchange.

OP is too dependent on her mum and other people to facilitate her DCs activities. She really needs to tackle this so she is not at someone else's mercy in the future. Her own mum has said she is unwilling to wait for the duration of the activity (for her own DGC) so not unreasonable that another parent who is there for the duration doesn't want to wait another 15 minutes on top. For whatever reason.

Personally I would be pissed off if my kids got changed quickly but were told they had to dry off properly and eat a snack before they could leave. That's very condescending in the name of inclusion. How rude of those posters to suggest these kids don't already have an idea about tolerance or that their parents aren't sanctimoniously teaching them about this. Maybe everyone just wants to get home?

OP it's not personal. It's just an unfortunate situation in which there isn't a bad guy or ogre. It sounds like a difficult destination otherwise why would the lift scheme be in operation in the first place?

[Jaspants]

OP have you asked the other Mum if there is a specific reason why she cannot wait the extra 15 minutes?

It could be that she has to be home by a specific time for eg to enable her DH to go to work or something.

If you could find that out maybe that would help in terms of getting her to keep to the arrangement.

[skybluepearl]

just read that you don't drive sorry and that it's only one change. I think maybe he just needs to get out earlier to buy himself more time getting changed? or practice at home like i said.

[whackamole]

Is there some reason why your other son cannot stay in the changing rooms with him to make sure he is getting ready? Or just keep knocking for him once the others are ready?

[aliceliddell]

This is a voluntary organisation, so the adults all volunteered to do this. The organisation has an ethos which should extend to supporting families with sn, it's not like he needs specialist trained assistants (grammar?) Tbh, the organisation should take responsibility imo and make sure the other kids understand the situation without making a big deal. Would they be prepared to ac comodate slight mobility issues? Hearing? Sight? Bet they would be able to guide him a bit, help him with glasses etc. What's the difference? They should welcome the opportunity of including someone with sn, not moan about it. That's what not discriminating means.

[Pixel]

Must say I'm a bit surprised at all this fuss over 15 mins. If the kids are old enough to go canoeing then I doubt 'getting home to bed' 15 mins later is going to be a huge problem and they are quite capable of taking a snack if they come out of the water starving surely?

I've never had anything to do with scouts( but was a brownie and a guide myself - a long time ago!) and I thought it was all about learning responsibility, helping others, teamwork etc. Seems a bit odd to send your dcs to scouts and then teach them to be impatient and intolerent of anyone who is a bit different!

[Goblinchild]

As I said in my post, we've never had a problem with Beavers, Cubs, Scouts and Explorer Scouts, or the leaders.
Parents, helpers or otherwise, yes.
If you rely on the goodwill of other adults, you are vulnerable and so is your son. They may not be bothered that it is something he enjoys and wants to do, or that he struggles in crowded situations or with managing his time appropriately. They will care about the effect it has on their own comforts and preferences. he is...inconvenient.

[brass]

wow the volunteers are now moaning and discriminating and the other kids (the little shits) should understand the situation.

Yes of course they are all to blame.

[Goblinchild]

Who is blaming? I said that they have different priorities and the OP's son is probably inconveniencing them. She doesn't want to wait, she doesn't have to. he isn't her son.
That's also why i suggested that the OP talk to the scout leaders rather than the other parent.

[brass]

not you goblin.

[Pixel]

No one said they were 'little shits'. Maybe I'm a bit biased as I once signed my dd up for a 'beginner' swimming class. After a couple of weeks the other parents ganged up and told the instructor my dd was getting too much attention and had her kicked out of the class (only then was I informed that the other children had already done a 15 wk course, it was still advertised as beginners so how was I to know?).

Firstly, you can imagine what that did to my dd's confidence.
Secondly, it happened 11 years ago and I still can't believe how spiteful those parents were to a little child.

Not saying the mother in this case is being spiteful AT ALL, just that these situations can be very hurtful when you can see your child is trying their best and other people think just a few minutes is a huge inconvenience.

[WelliesinJune]

YANBU. It is a very real condition. My brother had severe ADHD in a family of high achievers (including his twin sister). My parents didn't deal with it very well at all. It is more understood these days but it is still very difficult as it is a disability you can't "see". I just think well done you for caring so much, I'm sure however you deal with it throughout his life will be appropriate as you are a concerned and loving mother. IMO you should fight his corner, other people sometimes need to be made aware, quite clearly, of the problems he faces and how you expect them to act towards him. If he had a more obvious disability it wouldn't even be an issue, I'm sad to say. Good luck.