to ask how many allowances should be made for SN kids?

[PiousPrat]

DS1 is 11 and has a dx of ADHD and is undergoing investigation for Aspbergers. For the most part he adapts to the mainstream way of doing things and we have managed to find coping strategies for him that aren't disruptive for other people and don't draw attention to him unduly. He is however easily distracted, zones out a lot and processes things differently from his peers so despite seeming 'normal' for the most part, he obviously struggles with some things.

There have been a few occasions in the last year that have really riled me at the time, but looking back I wonder if I am being unreasonable in expecting other people (mainly his teachers or parents of his peers, he doesn't really encounter problems with his own age group) to give him a bit of extra time or help rather than getting wound up at him, writing him off as lazy or just excluding him from things.

As an example of the sort of thing I mean, and also the most recent; DS1 goes to scouts. The scouts go canoeing on a local stretch of water every week during the summer. We have a lift share system in place whereby one mum takes 5 of them to the canoeing, stays and brings them home as a) she is a parent helper and b) it is far enough away that it isn't worth leaving and coming home just to go back for them. In exchange for doing this, she then gets out of taking and fetching for the actual scout meetings for the whole year so it actually works out pretty even in terms of times each person takes.

DS1 can be quite slow in getting changed. He gets distracted, he sits and zones out after every piece of clothing unless he is kept on task. As a result of this, the first week they went canoeing the other 4 were waiting for him for nearly 15 minutes. I spoke to DS about it, we came up with ways he could be quicker and I tasked his brother to help in chivvying him along. Next week it took him 10 minutes longer than the others. Not great that they are kept waiting, but an improvement and a sign that he is putting some effort in. I still didn't think it very fair for the others to be kept hanging around, so I spoke to the leaders about sticking their head in the changing room if they got a chance, to remind him of what he needs to be doing and also got him a wetsuit so he only had one thing to take off, then lose and have to find again before finally stuffing it in his bag instead of a whole outfit.

Because he still came out after the others (the leaders didn't have time to pop in and hustle him along) the other mum is now refusing to take him at all. For the sake of those 10-15 minutes, he is missing out on the entire canoeing session which makes up a big part of the group bonding for his scout troup, which is his only social activity.

AIBU to think that it wouldn't kill her to cut him some slack, or perhaps knock on the changing room door herself and keep him on task? Or that the other kids having to wait a bit isn't actually the end of the world and it wouldn't do them any harm to learn a bit of tolerance?

I honestly seem to have lost all perspective on this, as i keep flitting between 'zomg my poor PFB, they are all so mean to him' and 'fair enough, he is inconveniencing other people, he should suck it up and accept it'

I have my big girl pants on, I can take it if the overall response is that I ABU about this specific example, but it also leaves me wondering how much it is reasonable to expect other people to make allowances for those with problems, especially invisible ones (assuming of course that they know about them)

[antshouse]

Have you asked Ds 2 what happens during that 15 min wait and what he is doing?

She is happy enough to drive 30 mins or so either way with the kids, and stay at the activity whilst they are well supervised and occupied. If they then spend 15 mins sat in a sheltered place reading a book or on their ds/phone/i-pods surely thats ok.

However if she is stood by the changing rooms waiting for your Ds1 to appear whilst the other 4 are running off to a car park to say goodbye to friends, misbehaving at the waters edge or bickering it must feel like a bloody long 15 mins.

[barbiegrows]

Hi, My dd has SEN too. Social exclusion is pants, it happens a LOT. This is what's happening, you are right to be peed off. What I tend to do in these circumstances is bypass adults completely, ask the children what they think about any issues that arise. Parents are generally obsessed with what's right for them, and not what's right for their kids. Most peers of children with SEN will not even notice that there is a 'problem'. It tends to be their parents that are. I would ask the parent in question to ask all the children whether they are prepared to wait for DS.

Don't doubt yourself Pious, you sound completely solid but are being pushed into a corner to defend yourself. Helping people out is helping people out. You don't help someone but then don't because one person does 15 more minutes than the other. That's not real life. I don't want t make you paranoid but it sounds like this person has another agenda and it's not about an extra 10 minutes of time in her life.

You could also try to make sure all the other parents know what canoe woman suggests, preferably while canoe woman is present - with a nice positive smile on your face of course - that might shame her into some kind of cooperation. Failing that, cut yourself out of the equation completely and consider it their loss.

Take care.

[brass]

sorry call me cynical but it's interesting that DS2 also being refused the lift was not mentioned in the first post or any of the subsequent ones.

It's all about DS1 but if she had refused both children that would have been extremely unfair and yet it wasn't mentioned that it affected DS2 until later. How convenient.

As someone said theres more to this than is being said and I'm afraid it just doesn't add up.

[wheredidyoulastseeit]

This bothers me as I don't think many people would balk at waiting 10 mins for a child.

May this mum can see that DS1 is not coping very well with the situation he is in, after all if he is spending at least 45 mins changing at the end of the activity, he must be equally slow at getting ready for it, and maybe not getting much out of the activity whilst he is doing it. Plus op has said that DS1 AND 2 bicker.
She actually might think it would be a kindness to DS1 if he did'nt go.

[thegruffalosma]

But surely if the 'bad mum' wasn't happy with what she was doing in relation to everyone else she would have said she's not taking anyone anymore - not just the OP's kids. If you take what the OP has said at face value and the woman is p'eed off at waiting 10/15 minutes extra for a child with sn then I don't know how anyone can excuse that tbh.

[Bathsheba]

The info has changed a bity - it went from "they do canoeing over the summer" to there being 20 sessions LEFT (a few have happened already for the situation to arise).

Are these 20 weeks of canoing (half the scout year) in addition to their normal scout meetings, or instead of...??

When you move are they staying at that scout group or moving to a new one..?

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

Stealth - if you read the previous page you will see that the op states that there are 20 sessions left, of which her kids will be able to attend about 6 as they are moving. I interpret this as the "bad" mum doing far more than just 6 weeks of trips.

Also the "bad" mum has to wait for 90 minutes .... So if it is not worth her going home it is clearly a considerable distance at her time and expense.

Why is it so awful to think that the "bad" mum is a cow when I think the op is taken her for granted a bit.

Perhaps seeming else has happened in the "bad" mums life and she has thought sod it, I am not going to continue doing stuff for other people because no one does anything for me that is comparative.

The "bad" mum is not that bad in my opinion.

[StealthPolarBear]

I got the impression the canoeing thing was summer only...so maybe 6 weeks, whereas the meetings would be year round

[Goblinchild]

'She has changed the goalposts for the OP which is not fair to the OP kids but now the OP has to make new arrangements.'

Agreed. There is no alternative as the support was voluntary and thus can be withdrawn without warning.

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

The op said it was a fair split but I can't see this. Maybe I have misread but the op mum takes the kids to scouts which is presumably local, down the road, 5 mins drive. The "bad" mum takes the kids canoeing most weeks it seems which is much fuehrer away, based on the fact that she stays as it is not worth going home for 5 mins, so presumably drives a lot further, spends more on petrol, and has to wait longer because of the SN child. This "bad" mum clearly does more than her share.

The rude comment does not have a toss to do with the SN issue. "normal" kids can be rude and it is different when it is not your kid. She would not have to put up with a naughty or rude child who is not her own. Hence possibly the "bad" mum has another side to this story. Why spend months giving lifts to suddenly want them to stop? There may be more to this than the op is letting on or even knows.

I am not saying the "bad" mum is justified, but it is her decision. She has changed the goalposts for the OP which is not fair to the OP kids but now the OP has to make new arrangements.

[Goblinchild]

'Perhaps your dc have been a bit rude and she has decided enough is enough?'

That's what often happens when you mix NT parents with no experience of AS or ADHD with children that are ND. The judgements about what they say and what they do, based on the adult's understanding of what is appropriate and 'normal.'
In what way rude?

[StealthPolarBear]

ccokcleaner, how do you know she does more than her fair share? Presumably she thought it was 'fair' when she suggested it at the beginning - she does the intensive ones (which she has already volunteered to be parent helper for, as a separate arrangement to this, so is going anyway) and the OP does (or asks her mum to do) the yearly meeting runs.

[bigTillyMint]

Or doing a good turn every day? Well, just every canoeing night?

[bigTillyMint]

Well lets hope she never has to turn to anyone for help / support with any of her perfect children.

What happened to thinking of others before myself?

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

But this woman as clearly had enough so she has every right to say no to the op. It is her decision, whether people like it or not.

[bigTillyMint]

What a cow. Surely she could put up and shut up for the last 6 weeks before you move?

Or your DS could just sit on a plastic bag/towel in his wet suit in the car - he will look like a prune when he gets in, but it won't be the end of the world.

Or do what Hatti said. It is only 6 more weeks.

[mrsravelstein]

way back at the beginning of this thread, someone said the problem is not the SN, the problem is the not driving. All the rest of it is irrelevant.

There are sometimes activities my oldest son would like to do which simply aren't possible because he happens to have 2 much younger siblings so I can't be going out to collect ds1 an hour past their bedtime. Your ds1 would like to do canoeing, but the situation is such that it isn't logistically possible. The SN is a total red herring.

[HattiFattner]

how about a simple solution - ask her to take the boys. Get your mum to collect them. Then she is not waiting.

The leaders will still be though.

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

It seems like this mum does way more than her fair share of driving and waiting. Perhaps your dc have been a bit rude and she has decided enough is enough? Perhaps she feels she is being taken advantage of? What do you do o make up for the hassle? I really don't understand how a child can get ready in the usual time or PE St school but is taking 45 minutes every week on a regular event. At the end of the day the mum has every right to say no, and whether it is unreasonable or not, it is her right to say no.

[Goblinchild]

This is why I don't accept help from other parents in tricky areas.
It's more than she can cope with, and my son would come home very stressed with all the sighing and impatience and eye-rolling and general irritation. It's not worth it IMO, and there really is nothing the OP can do to change that impatience.
I hope something gets worked out, or that the leaders can help you sort something. If it comes to the point where your DS2 is the only one kayaking, then I'd accept that he shouldn't have his choices restricted by his brother's SN.

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

That's not really the point. There is no timescale for how the boy will take to get ready. Last week it was around 40 mins but next week it could be more. The mum helpless as she can't go into the changing room to help him. Far too stressful when all you want to do is go home after a long evening's volunteering. This goes way beyond offering lifts. There is too much onus on the other mum.

[thegruffalosma]

What effect does it have on the volunteer mum that he gets out early? The only inconvenience (and it is a minor one imo) is the extra 10-15 minute wait at the end. I see no reason why he would start taking any longer as he has been getting dressed slightly quicker since his brother started helping him.
I would have some sympathy with the volunteer mum if the boy was taking an extra hour or something because that could easily interfere with other plans and would clearly be a lot more than she signed up for. But 10 mins? I would expect that some weeks with a groups of kids - sn or not.

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

It's not 10 mins though. He gets out 15 mins early plus the 10ish mins the other kids take plus a further 10 -15 mins. Besides the issue is he becomes distracted so could be worse some weeks. The other is stuck knocking on the door which is not proving effective. This boy needs more help to participate in this activity than the other mum can provide and it isn't fair to expect it of her.

[thegruffalosma]

10 mins apparently. And she could knock on the door?

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

It does sound very frustrating waiting for your DS. Basically it takes an indeterminate amount of time for him to get ready and she has no way of chivying him along. I'm not surprised she's bowing out of the responsibility.