to ask how many allowances should be made for SN kids?

[PiousPrat]

DS1 is 11 and has a dx of ADHD and is undergoing investigation for Aspbergers. For the most part he adapts to the mainstream way of doing things and we have managed to find coping strategies for him that aren't disruptive for other people and don't draw attention to him unduly. He is however easily distracted, zones out a lot and processes things differently from his peers so despite seeming 'normal' for the most part, he obviously struggles with some things.

There have been a few occasions in the last year that have really riled me at the time, but looking back I wonder if I am being unreasonable in expecting other people (mainly his teachers or parents of his peers, he doesn't really encounter problems with his own age group) to give him a bit of extra time or help rather than getting wound up at him, writing him off as lazy or just excluding him from things.

As an example of the sort of thing I mean, and also the most recent; DS1 goes to scouts. The scouts go canoeing on a local stretch of water every week during the summer. We have a lift share system in place whereby one mum takes 5 of them to the canoeing, stays and brings them home as a) she is a parent helper and b) it is far enough away that it isn't worth leaving and coming home just to go back for them. In exchange for doing this, she then gets out of taking and fetching for the actual scout meetings for the whole year so it actually works out pretty even in terms of times each person takes.

DS1 can be quite slow in getting changed. He gets distracted, he sits and zones out after every piece of clothing unless he is kept on task. As a result of this, the first week they went canoeing the other 4 were waiting for him for nearly 15 minutes. I spoke to DS about it, we came up with ways he could be quicker and I tasked his brother to help in chivvying him along. Next week it took him 10 minutes longer than the others. Not great that they are kept waiting, but an improvement and a sign that he is putting some effort in. I still didn't think it very fair for the others to be kept hanging around, so I spoke to the leaders about sticking their head in the changing room if they got a chance, to remind him of what he needs to be doing and also got him a wetsuit so he only had one thing to take off, then lose and have to find again before finally stuffing it in his bag instead of a whole outfit.

Because he still came out after the others (the leaders didn't have time to pop in and hustle him along) the other mum is now refusing to take him at all. For the sake of those 10-15 minutes, he is missing out on the entire canoeing session which makes up a big part of the group bonding for his scout troup, which is his only social activity.

AIBU to think that it wouldn't kill her to cut him some slack, or perhaps knock on the changing room door herself and keep him on task? Or that the other kids having to wait a bit isn't actually the end of the world and it wouldn't do them any harm to learn a bit of tolerance?

I honestly seem to have lost all perspective on this, as i keep flitting between 'zomg my poor PFB, they are all so mean to him' and 'fair enough, he is inconveniencing other people, he should suck it up and accept it'

I have my big girl pants on, I can take it if the overall response is that I ABU about this specific example, but it also leaves me wondering how much it is reasonable to expect other people to make allowances for those with problems, especially invisible ones (assuming of course that they know about them)

[itisnearlysummer]

well it sounds like it's being managed as well as it can be from their end then.

It's unfortunate that you don't drive. I suppose part of the frustration from the other mum is that, because she can't see into the changing room, she doesn't really know how long he's going to be. And I suppose it still means 4 children hanging around.

I suppose if you have to rely on other people, you just have to take what they feel they can offer.

[ExitPursuedByAKitten]

Sorry but it would really piss me off if everyone was ready to go and I had to hang around for one child, every week. Disclaimer - I am a very impatient person. You said yourself that it is quite a distance away and if I were the driver it would wind me up horribly knowing that I would be later home than necessary. Unless she agreed to manage your son's special needs, I think she has been very forthright telling you that she would no longer take him and I think you need to perhaps take him yourself.

[RevoltingPeasant]

Pious could you get a taxi for them, for the return trip?

I appreciate it might be expensive but if there are only a few sessions left before summer, maybe your DS2 could use his mobile to phone for a taxi - or you could arrange with a reputable firm to have a car ready at x time - and then the two brothers could get home together. If you had the taxi prearranged you could make sure they knew the driver's name, etc, or get one of the Scout helpers to put them in the car.

Then the other mum could take him, presumably not a hassle, but the drop-off would be solved, as a taxi driver wouldn't mind waiting a few minutes - he'd be getting paid for it....

[thumbwitch]

I don't think YABU, tbh. Sure, it's a bit of an inconvenience for the mum to have to wait a few extra minutes, probably with the girls whining that they want to go hoooome; but really - it's not ages, is it?

I'd wait for him quite happily, knowing that I was helping him to do something he otherwise couldn't get to - Scouting is about helping others, after all. Admittedly the mum isn't a scout herself, but the other children are and they could minimise the annoyance of the waiting period.

Have you any other means of keeping him on task? Would a stopwatch motivate him or distress him? What is the age difference between him and DS2 - can he help him more?

Am quite :( for you and your boy.

[anchovies]

Just wanted to say I am shocked that a 10 minute wait is so much of an incovenience that your son would no longer be given a lift. I wouldn't dream of telling a child that they couldn't have a lift because they didn't manage to get changed as fast as the other children. Especially as the child quite clearly isn't doing it on purpose (he comes in his wetsuit and gets out early FFS!)

I have a brother with Aspergers and we have struggled with exactly this sort of situation all his life.

[Peachy]

Well firstly hi;; I have 4 noys, 2 with disagnosed asd (one ahs AS), one beinga ssessed for ASD and one for ADD. I also have most of an MA in Autism completed so if you want any chat at any time please holler. I can certainly suggest ways to speed up dressing etc, that is farily classid ASD. I woudl start initially with a visual tool, now older kids are not so good at being happy to use them publicly so start at home then move to prompts when the routine is well used (you might well find the right stuff on ebay. i know they look as if theya re for younger kids but trust me, as someone who is both spectrummy and very high functioning herself, they help- we get over whelmed with tasks that require stages and have to break them down). Work towards getting dresing down to five minutes with a timer- again ebay or anything you have- then you can move to a stopwatch or mobile phone tool for out and about. I used to keep visual checklists of how to use the work till 9once in a blue moon) inside my diary; was fine.

As an ex rainbow Guider I adored kids with SN; as our local Cubs does, they cope well with ds2 and have asked ds3 (the most severe)- we decided against it but were glad he was asked. Some of teh kids from ds3's SNU go; it's a partnership thing, chatting about what is and what isn't doable.

Obviously the DDA regards to reasonable adjustments applies to scouts and it is essential then that parent and leaders togetehr work togetehr to discuss reasonable. As an example ds1's class went away on a scout style trip; we drove him there for a day and a night and the otehrs stayed for a week. Worked brilliantly (ds1's TA was already allocated to trip so he couldn;t ahve the usual inoput). parents obviously must be as flexible as others. We did have a Young Leader at our rainbows to help children who needed it; do theys till run that? Mind there's something about where we live now- I would lvoe to volunteer with Cubs but they have a surplus of helpers!

Inclusion only works when it is properly resourced. And essentially includes other options for kids whose inclusion is not going to work. DS1 and ds3 both started in mainstream but ds1 is going to a Base at 11 (special AS unit within a mainstream school- same requirements for GCSE etc just with specialist resourcing) and ds3 has been in a Base since he was in Yr1. DS2 though is properly included and always will be, but it does mean allocating limited resources very carefully. LEAs are necessarily getting ahrder and ahrder to elicit money from as well. It will all implode spectacularly of course.

[plainwhitet]

I do have a child with SN.
I agree with bonsoir. I think it is asking too much to make the driving mother either hang about or be in charge of chivvying your child. I know in the great scheme of things neither of these is a big issue, but the last thing I ever want is anyone to be hassled by dealing with my child, so if anything extra is ever required, I do it myself. Or, pay someone to do it. I wonder if there is a teenage type scout helper there who you could pay to go in the changing room with your son and help him; even leaving the activity 15 mins earlier to get started?

[Peachy]

SWC good post.

Itsnearlysummer perhaps, but if people with Sn were porperly part of society then people would be willing to make minor adjustments and 15 minutes is minor; it's a traffic jam, a phone call.

OP please do ask if I can help wrt to schedules and timetables etc. DS1 is 11, very high functioning (reading age of 13, head of school council etc) and benefits hugely from them.

[Peachy]

Amother smelly one swc.

He's11, he doesn;t need someone in a dressing room with him (how inappropriate is that?), he needs help with organising his mind.

[activate]

Why don't you ask if DS can get out 15 minutes earlier so that he can be changed at the same time?

[hocuspontas]

If he needs coping strategies for new routines then you haven't done him any favours by not accompanying him the first few times and putting these in place.

Maybe the other mother is hacked off because all she can hear is horseplay from the other changing room, she may assume he's not making any effort. 15 minutes is a long time to wait after everyone else has gone if you are not used to it.

[ginnybag]

I agree that voluntary organisations struggle with this kind of thing ( I run a youth group for a specific and very nerdy hobby for, primarily, teenage boys) mainly because I don't think any parent who hasn't done something similar has any comprehension of just how much actually goes on. Any child who pulls attention, for whatever reason, from the group as a whole can become a genuine logistics nightmare very quickly, and that'srather more frquently the ones who are just little bastards naughty than anything else.

However, in this case, it isn't the group that's struggling, it's one particular parent.

OP, it's a bit forward, but have you asked her why she can't wait. It does seem a bit mean of her, I have to say.

[Abelia]

I don't think you are being unreasonable. If your DS was causing the others in the group to miss out on their activity or disrupting the class or holding them back from progressing then yes, sadly, I think you would have to look into how to get him more individual support to enjoy the activity.

But as it is he who misses the end of the activity, so is compromising here, and the compromise on the part of the other 3 kids + adult is 10 mins waiting then that's not that much of a problem surely? What do the parents of the 2 girls (I assume this mum is parent to just 1 girl) think? As it may (or may not) be inconveniencing them to have their DDs home 10 mins later than might be expected. If they don't mind, perhaps you could all put the point to this woman?

Given that the driver mum has made a deal to do this lift in return for not doing the meeting lifts, it is a bit mean to back out now. Does that mean that your mum won't take her DD home from the other meetings throughout the year?

[MorticiaAddams]

I there a reason why you don't drive?

[MorticiaAddams]

or even IS there a reason?

[Peachy]

I have a thread in AIBU about ds1 having to handle teh R and S hate words at the moment so feeling a bit as if we are handling a lot today- and of course we have our undercover eugenics supporting BIL to cope with (am avoiding for as long as poss of course).


Have you see the thread in site stuff SWC? i take it you have posted ideas on there?

[ginnybag]

Okay, that was spectacularly badly phrased, and I apologise. 'This kind of thing...' what a dreadful phrase.

That'll teach me to reply whilst half listening to a work conversation.

[Peachy]

Organisations can deal with Sn should they wish to. I;d happily talk to any local group about managing asd and most areas will have someone like me willing to help out.

it is ahrd running such groups I well know, I have done them and am trying (and failing to get fudning) to establish a kid's club for those who have an ASD sibling ATM. but chidlren vary and an sn does not necessarily equate to any more hassle than a naugty NT child, or even an average NT child.

[Bonsoir]

I'm afraid I am deeply that you think it is all right to rely on another parent driving your child to an extra-curricular activity and to expect that other parent to wait around with four other children in tow for your child for an extra 10-15 minutes when you yourself cannot drive. This isn't an issue of SEN but an issue of your not driving.

[coppertop]

Apart from anything else, it's a bit 'off' for the other mother to presumably have her own child(ren) taken and collected from January until now and then decide that actually it's no longer convenient to stick to her end of the agreement.

[anchovies]

Hang on - she can't drive but her mother does her share of the lifts?!

[brass]

Rag I have the utmost respect for scout leaders. And I have been dismayed to see the way some parents talk to staff. Before setting off on a camp, one family turned up late and the dad got in the face of one leader and said menacingly 'you better look after him!'