to ask how many allowances should be made for SN kids?

[PiousPrat]

DS1 is 11 and has a dx of ADHD and is undergoing investigation for Aspbergers. For the most part he adapts to the mainstream way of doing things and we have managed to find coping strategies for him that aren't disruptive for other people and don't draw attention to him unduly. He is however easily distracted, zones out a lot and processes things differently from his peers so despite seeming 'normal' for the most part, he obviously struggles with some things.

There have been a few occasions in the last year that have really riled me at the time, but looking back I wonder if I am being unreasonable in expecting other people (mainly his teachers or parents of his peers, he doesn't really encounter problems with his own age group) to give him a bit of extra time or help rather than getting wound up at him, writing him off as lazy or just excluding him from things.

As an example of the sort of thing I mean, and also the most recent; DS1 goes to scouts. The scouts go canoeing on a local stretch of water every week during the summer. We have a lift share system in place whereby one mum takes 5 of them to the canoeing, stays and brings them home as a) she is a parent helper and b) it is far enough away that it isn't worth leaving and coming home just to go back for them. In exchange for doing this, she then gets out of taking and fetching for the actual scout meetings for the whole year so it actually works out pretty even in terms of times each person takes.

DS1 can be quite slow in getting changed. He gets distracted, he sits and zones out after every piece of clothing unless he is kept on task. As a result of this, the first week they went canoeing the other 4 were waiting for him for nearly 15 minutes. I spoke to DS about it, we came up with ways he could be quicker and I tasked his brother to help in chivvying him along. Next week it took him 10 minutes longer than the others. Not great that they are kept waiting, but an improvement and a sign that he is putting some effort in. I still didn't think it very fair for the others to be kept hanging around, so I spoke to the leaders about sticking their head in the changing room if they got a chance, to remind him of what he needs to be doing and also got him a wetsuit so he only had one thing to take off, then lose and have to find again before finally stuffing it in his bag instead of a whole outfit.

Because he still came out after the others (the leaders didn't have time to pop in and hustle him along) the other mum is now refusing to take him at all. For the sake of those 10-15 minutes, he is missing out on the entire canoeing session which makes up a big part of the group bonding for his scout troup, which is his only social activity.

AIBU to think that it wouldn't kill her to cut him some slack, or perhaps knock on the changing room door herself and keep him on task? Or that the other kids having to wait a bit isn't actually the end of the world and it wouldn't do them any harm to learn a bit of tolerance?

I honestly seem to have lost all perspective on this, as i keep flitting between 'zomg my poor PFB, they are all so mean to him' and 'fair enough, he is inconveniencing other people, he should suck it up and accept it'

I have my big girl pants on, I can take it if the overall response is that I ABU about this specific example, but it also leaves me wondering how much it is reasonable to expect other people to make allowances for those with problems, especially invisible ones (assuming of course that they know about them)

[tomhardyismydh]

I think getting your son out of the activity 15 mins earlier is the only way forward. Or traveling your self there and back maybe getting a lift from someone else. how far is it from your home are you able to walk or bike or bus?

[ballstoit]

Could you ask one of the leaders if you could both (all you and both DSs if that's easier) get a lift with them? If the reason they can't take the kids alone is that they need 2 adults at all times, then you being in the car as well would sort that wouldnt it? You could offer to pay for petrol so that you (and them) didnt feel you were just taking advantage.

[coppertop]

But the other mother made an agreement that she would do the canoe run in exchange for not collecting/dropping off her own child for the rest of the year. The OP's mother does this, so the OP herself being a non-driver shouldn't affect anyone.

[ChitChattingagain]

How many threads are on MN right now, with people not liking playdates, not keen on having much to do with other children, not even really liking other children? I'm afraid that the reality is that a lot of people just don't have the energy/time/willingness to deal with other children generally, and when the other children have additional needs that are more than they are accustomed to, this is just bound to happen.

How many scout groups and other voluntary groups have had to close because of a lack of volunteers? This is a widespread problem, not just affecting those with special needs.

My DS doesn't have special needs, but at the moment he has toileting issues which means I'm not willing to take him to other houses for playdates without being there myself as I don't expect other parents to have to deal with it.

I'm afraid OP that if you want your DS to be included, you're going to have to get yourself a driving licence because that is the only way that you are going to be able to ensure that. This is not the last time this sort of issue will come up.

[HaughtyChuckle]

I'm sorry your experiencing this OP

Its aggravating when people have to make a few allowances such a big deal,

[badmummy101]

to be honest, if the other mum is picking up all the kids, staying and then dropping home, i can understand why 15 mins would be a pain.
i think that if you want your son to carry on then it is up to you to go along, or find someone who will go and help with the getting them all ready part. scout leaders and parent helpers are volunteering their time, if it is 15 mins every week for the whole summer it would start to grate to have to give even more of your time, esp if your child is ready and waiting, bored and hungry.

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

It doesn't sound like very much but I think I would get fed up with this week in week out. If you son needs extra help you should be providing it not relying on someone who is doing you a favour to put themselves out even more. Why doesn't he finish the activity 10 mins early so he can be ready when the others are?

[cwtch4967]

I have a son with SN and I don't think you are being unreasonable in expecting the other mum to keep to her side of the agreement - she new upfront about his difficulties and has already benefited from her children having lifts. It is very sad that she is making so much fuss over 10 - 15 mins!
Have you tried drawing up a picture board for your son to follow when getting dressed - what about practising at home? Make a game of getting wearing the wetsuit and getting wet and practising drying and dressing again???

[Peachy]

'us people with brains different to anyone else, what a darn nuisance we are. perhaps we could be rounded up and herded to a place where we can't hinder people who are too important to spare 10 minutes out of their busy schedules.
' could you imagine the chaos you and I would cause if we were rounded up SWC? between us we would take down the entire political system.

Bring it on!


Cwtch great post.

[tomhardyismydh]

just a thought as he is in a wet suit, could he towel himself down and sit on a towel in the car on way home. my dd does this from beach to home most of the time.

[Peachy]

Mum why is hte otehr mum doing her a favour if it an exchange of duties?

[MrsVidic]

I think the time issue is a valid one- she may have other dc's/ things going on in her life she has to get back for. Also the 15 mins could affect the traffic / her getting home to put other dc's to bed. I would aggre with others that you should try to accompany him

[perfumedlife]

Would be so sad if your lad had to miss this activity.

If you say he already leaves the water before the others, and is over ten minutes later than them dressing, it sounds like he is really struggling with the concentration. Is there any way you could go for one or two trips just to help him focus on a routine?

[wubblybubbly]

I'm an extremely impatient person in general. However, when it comes to children, the elderly or those with special needs I think I'm capable of understanding that allowances need to be made.

In all honestly, people in general are an inconvenience if that's how we choose to look at it. Best to get used to the idea.

YANBU.

[starfishmummy]

Pious, I have a 12 yo with SN and he would sit there all day without getting dressed so I know where you are coming from.

Is there an adult in the changing room who can chivvy him along to hurry up, or even help him? And does he have to put on a scout uniform of can he just have easy to pull on joggers and sweatshirt? Or maybe he gtets out a bit earlier?

[halcyondays]

YANBU. Unless the mum has other commitments which mean she has to be back for a certain time, she must be pretty impatient to refuse to wait for a few minutes. I assume she will still expect her child to be able to get a lift back with your mum on the nights when she picks them all up.

I don't think this is about the OP not driving, it's a reciprocal arrangement as the OP's mum gives them a lift in return on other nights. As a non-driver myself, I don't expect lifts,I'm very grateful if someone offers, but in this case, it's not just doing someone a favour, as it's reciprocated. Not everyone can get a driving licence, for many possible reasons. It's cheaper to use taxis on the odd occasion than spend a fortune learning to drive, for some people.

If the mum didn't want the bother of dealing with other people's children, why did she volunteer to help in the first place?

Chitchat, I have a child with toiling issues too and wouldn't ask other parents to deal with that, but waiting a few minutes to give someone a lift isn't really in the same category as wiping bums.

Hope you can sort something out, Op, like getting a lift with the leaders even if you have to go to, or getting a taxi if it's not too far.
It would be a pity for your son to miss out.

[travellingwilbury]

I think the practising at home thing sounds a really good idea .
Some way should be found so he doesn't have to miss out on the canoeing .
Whether the other mum is right or wrong doesn't really matter , it is what it is .
The easy way out would be to say it is all just too hard and pull him out but that is a shitty lesson for him to learn .

I also don't think he should be coming out earlier and missing the last 15 mins so he is ready on time either . The last bit is probably when they have all the fun .

It sounds like Peachy has got some good ideas , you should take her up on them (IMHO)

For the record I don't think you are asking too much at all but it is not me giving the lifts and it doesn't sound like you will change her mind .

[GrimmaTheNome]

just a thought as he is in a wet suit, could he towel himself down and sit on a towel in the car on way home. my dd does this from beach to home most of the time.

I was wondering that - I'd add some plastic under the towel. My DD is 12 with no SN but I think she'd take ages getting out of a wetsuit without me to help (let alone into it). Girls have the advantage of being able to pop one of those towelling dresses on after water sports, you can get ones for boys though I've never seen one worn outside of a Boden catalog.

I'm quite stunned someone wouldn't be willing to wait a few minutes in the circumstances you describe. Wonder if you volunteered to send something nice for the other kids to chow on while they waited that could fill the gap?

[GrimmaTheNome]

Oh, and:

Or that the other kids having to wait a bit isn't actually the end of the world and it wouldn't do them any harm to learn a bit of tolerance?

Yes

[ragged]

How many canoeing sessions are there? It sounds like a fairly small number? Under ten? Under 20?

I think asking the others to wait an extra 15 minutes is entirely reasonable (SN diagnosis or not) if it's only a handful of times (5 or less). Waiting an extra 15 minutes if it's 6-15 occasions would be okay, especially given the SN, but I'd be trying to make it up to the other parent in some kind of way (bottles of wine? :) ). More than 12-15 is probably just too much to ask, especially on school nights.

[Goblinchild]

My son is exactly the same, kayaks, scouts and taking time to change.
The scouts have been fantastic, inclusion with rules and boundaries and second chances all the way, as has every group he's been in since he was a Beaver.
So, I'd be helping them to try and work out an answer to the problem.
But I've had very little success with other parents in the inclusion stakes, most of them have been wary, hostile, intolerant and only OK if his needs had no effect on them. Very few have made any effort to include him in any way at all, all his life (including birthday parties and sleepovers and such)Their children have mostly been much better, bar the occasional bear-baiter.

So I'm going to be little help at all OP, I rarely factor in other parents as a support unless we're related to them in some way. It's too much hassle, and I would feel too beholden. My son is what and who he is, and I am proud of what he's achieved. Not going to have that tarnished by some woman tutting and fussing and comparing him to other children.

[takethisonehereforastart]

Can you practice with him at home, changing into and out of his wetsuit etc, so that he gets the hang of doing it quickly and effieciently?

Or perhaps ask the scout leaders to let him finish and start changing a few minutes before the others, so he has a head start and less distractions?

Or could one of the scout leaders bring him home? What do the scout leaders think about her refusal to allow him a few extra minutes? Is she the only parent collecting children? Are there only five scouts who go on the trips?

FWIW I think she is being unreasonable because she must know that your son has SN but was she told that he may take longer than the others when she volunteered?