Poor Kids

[NearlySpring]

Documentary on BBC1 now.

Sat here in tears watching this show following children living in poverty.

One woman, with 3 young girls all under 8. Her partner left her alone and she is struggling with money. The girls were given a sausage roll each for dinner. They are let out to play on a building site and derelict houses- where the he'll is the mother? Mother comes on saying how she can't cope financially- kids saying they have to miss meals as mummy can't always afford food. Next scene, mother has acrylic nails and a massive dog!

AIBU to ask if she can't afford to feed her kids basic cheap meals how the he'll does she feed a massive dog that is bigger than her 3 kids put together!

It must be terrible to be in that situation but surely you get your priorities straight. Who has a pet if they have no money?!!

No....but some people just don't knnow HOW to worra....they dont think "Oh look the damp in the bedroom has got beyond a joke...I must call the council every hour for a week, peak to my local councilor...etc....they think..."Shit..that looks bad. I should call...but they'll fob me off...

And that comes from lack of confidence....which is hereditary.

Bloody well said Dionethediabolist

TBH, when we were kids we often played on dangerous areas and sites and we were definitely not neglected - they just seemed more exciting and interesting. Now of course, I'm a bloody control freak and would never let me kids play like that.

Bloody makes us thankful for what we have but oh, how depressing.

Damp is one thing but filth is another.

Anyone can sweep the floors and fold washing. Anyone can choose to feed their kids over an animal.

I honestly thing there are some people in our society who are not very intelligent or do not know how to put heir children first, they don not know any better than their children. How do you put that right.

Worra...I'm going to have one last go...when you have nothng but shit in your life..and you have been brought up in a filty house yourself...then filth is normal....it's not right...but to them it's normal.

The problem is how to break the cycle...you have to do it with the kids...ot the parents. It's too late for them.

I honestly thing there are some people in our society who are not very intelligent or do not know how to put heir children first, they don not know any better than their children. How do you put that right.

Not to many years ago the children would have just been taken away from them. I am not sure what is worse being taken away from a parent or living like those poor blighters have to.

Mumbling and Dione, I completely agree with you. Shifting the blame onto the individuals is a wonderful way to avoid having to take responsibility as a community.

it's not the so much being 'poor' but when you look around you and realise you are the poorest - like those poor children who didn't even have what their peers and friends had.

That's what poverty is to a degree. People might have had it much worse in the past but you have to compare it with what others have round about you and if you are way at the bottom of the heap, that is a sad place to be.

The thing is that sometimes I don't always choose the right thing to spend money on, and I bet none of you do either. I'm not living in the sort of poverty described here, but I do have debts (a mortgage), and yet - unbelievable, I know - sometimes I will go get my hair coloured or buy a pair of shoes that I don't actually need to keep the rain off, rather than put extra money towards that mortgage.

And sometimes, even though I'm able-bodied, I think fuck it, I CBA to do the dishes tonight, I'll leave them to the morning. In fact, I have found that if the house slides a bit, it's harder to find the motivation to clean it than if it stays relatively sparkling.

When I was younger and poorer, I even smoked. And drank alcohol. The horror, right?

Because all of those things are human. It's only the very poor of whom we expect super-human behaviour; no treats, ever, no vanity, no indulgences, just backbreaking grinding work to scrub a place that will never, ever look nice.

You'll all say but I'm not starving my children, etc. Of course that's true, but it is equally true that if I didn't spend any money on myself ever in order to pay off the last of the mortgage, I could maybe scrape up a trust fund for them, or afford private school fees. But instead, and hold onto your hats here folks, I'm going out to an Indian restaurant tonight with an old friend I haven't seen in a year.

I didn't notice anything bad about the parents when watching it tbh. Fair enough I was half asleep but I was just amazed at how gorgeous and sensible the children were and sad at how little they had. I think it was sensitively done without berating the parents and am a a mixture of amused and depressed that people have managed to land the blame squarely on the parents anyway!

These are people who have nothing and have probably never had anything. People who ave no hope that things will change and people who are probably so ground down and depressed by every simple need being a struggle that they have given up.

As for the nails and the coke equalling a sensible meal - it just beggars belief that people would judge for that! Everyone needs treats. And every adult needs something for themselves occasionally. Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they shouldn't have something - especially when it's something so small!

Didn't watch the programme as they are rarely an overall picture and filmed in a certain manner.

Given CB alone for three 3 children is approx £60 a week and CTC much higher then there is absolutely no excuse to not feed the children decently. That money wont have to pay rent or council tax and the mother will get IS for her own expenses and bills.

Our system is very generous and people know that (hence why so many choose not to work) but if parents dont spend the money on what its intened for then the authorities should step in.

Yes the house should be clean and tidy. But I totally understand why the single mum had a dog.

I have lived in some very rough estates. As a child I played outside and it was fine. That is not always the problem. The real danger is being burgled. If you are burgled when you have little money, it can be a financial disaster. And single mums are seen as an easy target.

Years ago a friend who was a single mum was burgled and had everything stolen - every bit of clothing, cutlery, childrens toys, etc. And the burglars are usually neighbours.

And people seen as an easy target have other problems. Drug dealers often "take over" someone's house and set up shop dealing in their living room. They target someone who they know they can terrify into not going to the authorities.

So if I lived as a single mum on a very rough estate I would have a big dog for protection. I think those criticising this choice have no understanding of the problems caused by often a small group of low lifes on a very rough estate.

you know what is so irritating about mumsnet on these threads? every time a middle income type moans about losing CB or Tax Credits they get told they shouldn't have kids they can't afford. never gets said about the non working parents who go on having kids. tbh i think the solution is to stop entirely state funding a person's 'right' to endless parenthood.
after my divorce, and pre tax credits, i was left with one child, privately renting, and used to go round the supermarket with literally 50p sometimes. but i carried on working, my flat was spotless, and now i am somewhere entirely different.

Same old same old crap spouted on here

I'm off

never gets said about the non working parents who go on having kids. tbh i think the solution is to stop entirely state funding a person's 'right' to endless parenthood

Are you serious? This gets said all the fucking time.

well, i'm obviously missing it. usually there's a lot of vitriol towards anyone earning a lot with financial problems, and lots of sympathy on any thread saying 'is it ok to have another baby when we have 4 already and only have 2 rooms/ etc etc'.

And this gets said all the time too ' where are the feckless fathers in all this?'

Yeah, you clearly are, because I've read that particular canard on here over and bloody over again, as if it's at all appropriate to punish children for the weaknesses of their parents.

Very easy to judge (and I did). What it brought home was the helplessness of these families. Sam needed new trousers, we were never told about whether he'd had a school uniform grant (I'm certain he would have qualified, but Sam was only starting free school dinners at the end of the programme, so did his Dad just not know about these schemes?)

Common-sense budgeting was sadly missing - it's not as if a birthday or Christmas arrives unexpectedly. Same goes for school holidays. Poor Sam, 2 presents and 1 card.

Most other posters (me included) seem to think that it's not simply lack of money that's the problem. Of course more money would help, but what can people (or the state) do, if the parent can't/won't budget and can't/won't find work? I would like to knock on Sam's door, clean up the whole house, take them all shopping, teach them how to budget etc etc etc. But if I did, I would be labelled as a middle-class do-gooder. Which is what I am.

I would agree that if your parents do not teach you proper life skills then things which many of us see as really obvious, such as budgeting and planning cheap menus, are impossible for you.

I have a friend whose DM died when she was young and was neglected badly by her DF who couldn't cope with 5 DCs. She missed years of schooling because he took them abroad and never got around to finding a school for them, and sometimes they had to find their own meals.

Now she has no idea how to cook even simple meals and instead spends a fortune on ready meals. I have started teaching her the basics of cooking and it is heartbreaking seeing how she lacks even the most basic domestic skills that most of us take for granted.

She is a bright and hard working person who has overcome her background to become a qualified nurse, but her confidence is so low as she knows how many basic skills of adult life that she lacks.

yeah but its about stopping the cycle. stop letting people expect money every time they have a kid, and they will have more for the exisitng ones. get schools to teach about budgeting, about careers, raise expectation at a young age. lok at the priorities - massive telly, internet, all on tick. that extra £50 debt could go a long way to birthdays.

Just watched this, the electric going on Sams birthday was pretty depressing viewing.

Re: the mum with the nails, in my experience of working with families on benefits she probably could afford to get her nails done AND feed her kids. Wasn't that they only family where she didn't say how much money she had coming in?

I'm in no way having a go at those on benefits, just wondering where the rest of her money was going. And agree having a big dog on rough estates is very common, single mums do get targeted.

It is almost impossible to help these children, and the many others like them to improve the situation that they are in, when they have parents who do not possess the intelligence, know nothing different, or simply do not want to change the way they live.

You can hand over more and more benefits, but ultimately it will go into the parents pockets, and the parents (not particularly in the cases shown, but certainly in plenty of other families who live like that), will just blow the money on unsuitable things rather than necessities. They have come from generations who have never had money, and lived hand to mouth, and have no idea how to budget.

The only way I can see help getting to the children directly is via the schools. Ensuring the kids get a decent nutritious meal every day. Providing free holiday clubs, encouraging parents to donate uniform that has been outgrown to the schools. Remove child benefit from those who do not need it, and use that money to put into schools to help those from poorer families.

Been trying to work out how to post on this subject without getting drawn into the minuscule of stick on nails and coke in the background.

Found the programme very depressing, felt so much for the families (who clearly loved their children), what really got me was how clear it was that poverty is a trap. They were stuck paying for gas, electric and their white goods in the most expensive way there is, and to a degree food (as they have no transport options to shop around).

The children were wonderfully articulate and having worked with children in similar situations I would say this was genuine and not scripted/set up. Children can be wonderfully perceptive and clear on there situation in life, they can clearly see how they are different and there parents have not been able to shield they from the very clear reality, so they were just saying what they saw.