To think that children in 21st century UK should not be living like this?

[mrspear]

See this report from the BBC

Apologies if this has already been mentioned

Have lived in developing nations. Relatively many, in fact.

Seems weak and rather unintelligent to compare here to there, IME.

But alas, give some enough rope, they'll hang themselves . . .

I've been searching my posts for the name-calling and couldn't find them. No doubt MNHQ will delete anything I have typed which constitutes a personal attack.

Out of interest, would you be happy to be interviewed face to face in the street and to express the opinions you have put forward on this thread for all to see and hear?

Expat
I just mean concern for other people, not any sinister cult movement...

McDonalds? You can't necessarily compare young people (many of them seem to be) or perhaps still live at home or in shared cheap digs, perhaps no children, mortgages - to someone who has kids and has to find childcare and support a family.

had a discussion with a friend who said if many of the immigrants who work doing decorating, plumbing etc can cut their prices than why can't the local born tradesmen. Hadn't thought that many of these young guys come over to make a fast buck, living in cheap shared accommodation, live as cheaply as possible, pay no taxes - again you can't compare them to guys with families, paying mortgages and paying tax - of course these young immigrants (and I can't blame them) can work for cheaper.

Know it's off topic but some areas really have little in the way of jobs that folk can actually live on and saying that if immigrants can do it - isn't always like for like.

Meditrina: i disagree, definitions are essential - how else are we to agree whether we are tackling the right problem? I'm not talking about what I think should be the definition of poverty in the UK, I'm talking about what is the definition of poverty in the UK. We can talk about it ideologically, for sure, but like you i think that it's what's done about it that counts. And to do something about it we need to know what we're dealing with, we need to know who the poor are.

It's clear from this thread that personal definitions of poverty vary. I was trying to point out that "third world poverty" (while terrible) is not relevant for our discussions of poverty in the UK.

maypole show some compassion ffs, I hope to god you never find yourself on benefits

actually scrap that I hope you do

Programme starting - I've just been struck by a comment in the intro "there is a bigger income gap now than at any time since the second World War".

That's exactly the time the welfare state has been in existence.

Well. For maypole people who haven't read the Guardian article or seen the preview, it's on now.

Oh here's one now. Nice kid. He'd be better off in a workhouse mind

I am watching the programme. Poverty is no excuse for living in squalor for a start :(

I've read most of the thread, and don't think debt has been mentioned. People living in poverty are likely to have got into debt at some point. This will mean a chunk of their benefits is being used up to pay off the debt, rather than buying school uniform, etc.

There are people out there who do survive perfectly well on benefits. My SIL is one example. But she is a very intelligent, educated woman who knows exactly what benefits she is entitled to, and would know exactly how to get it sorted if there were mold in her council house. It is shocking that any council house has mold in it, though.

Sassy - 70%, and you have to work at least 16 hours to get that. Say if you had a cleaning job 5 mornings a week for 4 hours a day, with say half an hour's travelling time (16 year olds can't drive remember), 20 minutes to drop the child off at nursery/childminder, and an extra 10 minutes for unexpected lateness/because most will charge by the whole hour anyway. So that's 6 hours per day costing £24, but only 4 hours work earning £14.56. Before national insurance (I don't think you'd pay tax on that) 70% of £24 is £16.80 - so you'd be paying £7.20 per week for childcare, that's half of your wage. If you had to get a bus there and back, a weekly bus pass in most places is £12ish. It's not really doable.

I'm going to watch it with my older dcs tomorrow.

Anyone sensible will know that this might be skewed and divisive though

I'm not going to be looking at the adults and their choices because that isn't the issue.

its on at 11.05 on bbc wales

Good to hear the idea that children of 'feckless parents' should be taken into care being wheeled out again. It never disappoints.

It would be cheaper if the state subsidised every single child of the 'feckless' until their 18th birthday.

And what PeterSpanswick said.

But the adults have choices, the children dont. If the adults are at home all day, there is no excuse for a house being filthy like the one shown. :(

On now in Scotland.

plebshire - I don't think I was disagreeing with you in terms, more expanding on what you'd said (given some comments up thread about absolute poverty). And I'm not trying to dismiss the problems of deprivation in UK - wanting a terminology that differentiates between absolute and relative poverty is not synonymous with a dismissive attitude.

I'd be interested BTW in a link about how deprivation is measured differently in different regions in UK.

I find it hard to believe that some people it think a solution would be to give people vouchers instead of money. Why don't we just dehumanise these people further?

And someone suggested a fridge was a luxury?!

I just got all seeing that girls' dinner DESPITE posting earlier about how far from any shops selling fruit and veg some of these estates are.

It might help my dcs understand that kids at school who smell or have ill fitting clothes or shoes often have little choice in the matter. So that they will become non judgemental adults. Yes I'm judging the posters who can't seem to realise that things are often not as straightforward as they seem.

girl's dinner, obviously.

I drove from the S.E to Birmingham last week and saw tower blocks like that from the motorway in Coventry. All facaded-up. Shit-holes inside of course