To think that children in 21st century UK should not be living like this?

[mrspear]

See this report from the BBC

Apologies if this has already been mentioned

I think that a lot of the problem with benefits is that it's throwing money at the problem and hoping that'll keep everyone happy. Like others have said price differences, poor quality housing, debts and many other factors will impact a households ability to cope.

Poverty reduction in the developing world takes into account these differences and recognises that poverty is more than just a lack of money. It's about exclusion, it's about shitty housing and lack of opportunities.

In terms of inter-generational poverty, education is an amazing opportunity, but it's difficult to see the benefit of education when no-one you know has finished school and so you have literally no idea about what kind of wage you can expect with a degree. DP left school at 14 because minimum wage now was better than what he assumed he would get if he'd stayed on.

There are no simple answers, unfortunately, if there were then the MDGs would be in the bag by now.

this thread reminds me of that Rich Kid, Poor Kid programme C4 did a few years ago

Poor parent couldn't even manage to sort out a bed, sheets or enrol her child in school

To be fair, our house has mould on the walls ( very old farmhouse in Need Of Work) and inadequate heating but a bit of diluted bleach and anti mould spray fixes it.

Theseondcoming, not strictly true.

There have been huge numbers of jobs in the service industry over recent years but hard work and low pay . Most of these have been taken by immigrant workers who seem to have a good work ethic.

There WERE jobs ( and still are) but some Brits won't take them .

A lot of people are making a lot of assumptions here. If people are poor, charity shops are great. I pick up most of our clothes second hand, and it is good quality, extremely cheap, and far easier on the environment.

I know families living in poverty in my area - some of them are too proud to accept benefits because "there are people that need the help more than them..." and it breaks my heart when I see them in the local shop having to put food back because they don't have enough money.

EldonAve: I remember that programme - the mother in question had IIRC mental health issues for which she was self medicating with alcohol, and the 15 year old big sister was trying to sort things out but just didn't know what needed to be done (hence no school enrolment). It made me want to weep - and really hope someone local to them was able to take her under their wing (she left school - I was praying someone sympathetic would offer her a job and a bit of mothering). It was also a prime example of how factors other than income level can be the most important.

Unless you are in the system, brought up in the system and know to work the system...... if you suddenly find yourself in the system ..... you don't know how to work it/play it - and you have to know what to ask - they dont tell you what you can claim or what help you are entitled to.

Best advice I was ever given was 'tell them you cant read and they have to explain everything to you' (rather than fling forms at you and hope you can work it out) .... fortunately I haven't had to use it. Yet But in this economic climate? who knows?

Vouchers sound good in theory but there would soon be a black market.

There are plenty of other ways the government could discourage people from having children they cannot afford to support. They could make IS only payable for 9 months like SMP and no extra benefits for those wh have more children when already relying on the state. JSA only for those with children over age 1 with strict sanctions if turning jobs down or not trying.

No child should be in poverty given that benefits pay more than wages in lots of cases, but poverty is relative and the uk does not have true poverty.

Until we get tough on benefits people will continue to have children as an excuse to not work and simply claim.

ccpccp Tue 07-Jun-11 20:59:07
There is no poverty in the UK. Everyone gets a roof over their heads, food in their bellies and health/education.

The poor will always whine about it, but no matter how much money we give there will always be a bottom rung of society.

Vouchers is the way to go. Too many feckless parents using money the state provides for their kids on things for themselves.

ccpccp Your post is both ignorant and small minded, it must be very merry up there with your silver spoon in your mouth.

If something breaks it can be hard to find the money in your budget, my kettle broke last year and I had to boil water on the cooker for a few days before I could afford a new one.

That isn't hardship - its inconvenience - you has the gas/electric to boil on the hob. I dare say some of us will remember growing up with kettle you did boil on the hob and that was normal before plug in kettles.

AuntieMaggie, i think people like that are stupid pride don't put food on the table

Maypole, but how will taking children away from these parents help? Children growing up in care generally have even worse outcomes. Just because someone can't afford proper clothing for their children or even if they are putting their own needs first, doesn't mean they don't love the children.

Pipe dream I know, but support should be for whole families. Often under the current system, because social workers only tend to work with one age group, you might have one social worker for a toddler/baby in a family, a different one for a school aged child, another for mum who might have mental health difficulties or have left care not that long ago, and they don't always agree or even have contact with each other. It's a mess. How can that family possibly receive any meaningful help with this sort of fragmented contact? And of course all the social workers will have different priorities, different training, different approaches, different opinions. Parents often feel threatened by social workers who are there for the welfare of children, because they are frightened they will take them away. In theory they are supposed to support the parents and keep families together as far as possible but when parents are defensive to begin with, there's already a barrier there before you've even begun.

Wouldn't the best idea be to raise wages to a liveable rate and provide decent, affordable childcare? No tax credit, better-off calculations and full-time workers unable to support themselves without help from the government? Surely that would encourage people into jobs they are glad to have, rather than stirring up resentment for and taking from the most vulnerable in society?

Poverty is relative.

The majority have a roof, access to clean water and sanitation - even if you have to go to a public utility in a shopping mall to access it - if need be the Salvation Army would feed you, the SS send out food packages, ....this isn't deepest darkest Africa with mosquito swarms, famine, civil war, and no medicine....frankly if you didn't have a roof but had children to provide for, you would be bunged in a B&B

Maypole I don't know your circumstances but most people, unless they have millions in the bank, are but one death, divorce or disability away from being on benefits and at the mercy of people who have opinions such as yours.

I truly hope you don't ever have to to looking for a new job which needs any degree of literacy because you will be cast down to the very bottom of the heap with no chance of escape.

The horrible thing about the programme we are discussing is the utter hopelessness of the children featured. I saw a preview (linked in News) and was heartbroken. Read the transcripts. The children are intelligent and articulate. They are realistic, practical but also delightfully compassionate and sensitive. Which is more than can be said for some MN posters

Green stocking I agree with you immigrants who are not entitled to anything always seem to find work but people who were born here and can claim can
Never seem to find the jobs its wired.

Nearly every town has a mc donalds or a hospital the immigrants always seem to be able to get a cleaning job or a fast food Job

Some parts of british society have no in test in getting a job and are glad the down turn. is around so they can say well their no jobs.

Then you find out their child is like 12 and they haver worked in the last 10 years but the down turn has only been going on for 4 years so whats the excuse for sitting at home for the first 6 years

London gives free bus travel to all children, and discounted Oyster rates for older children on other public transport and to those on Income Support. There's nothing to stop other councils offering the same - perhaps the way to achieve it is by local lobbying?

Southwark is extending FSM at lunchtime to all pupils (thread about it on here recently) and several areas have cheap/free breakfast clubs at selected schools. Again - if you think it's the right thing - lobby for it to be made a priority.

And I know directly of a school which accepts token payment or waives it altogether for its polo shirts and sweatshirts for families who would otherwise have difficulty paying. Ask your school to do it too.

It can all be done if these services are demanded when spending decisions are made.

I agree with someone earlier in the thread (sorry don't remember who) but my mum is/was a "feckless parent" she still cannot budget and goes to my gran for money when her own runs out. She doesn't know how to budget, cook cheaply from scratch, or mend things/clothes that break. She doesn't think twice about buying ready meals or takeaways and smoking 20 a day.
I am good at most of the above but only because I had a v.well earning paper round at 13yo and was managing my own finances from then, with help from my gran.

I recently found myself on a much tighter budget than usual and again went to gran for help she's now taught me how to do a cheap meal plan and cook cheaply.

These are life skills that should be learned from an early age and sadly I think they started to die out with my gran's generation. We need to learn to cook and budget and live like they did in WW2 then even people on benefits could afford a decent standard of life!

Trois - don't be daft. I don't think zukie was trying to make out she was the poorest person in Britain. Just an acknowledgement that if you live hand-to-mouth, even a small expense like a kettle (A kettle FFS! £5 in Argos, IIRC.) can't always be paid for straight away. Those saying "But it's easy, you can spend £20 in primark and get a whole outfit" are missing this point. It's an example. It's not saying a kettle is more important than shoes

Not really I have a fab job thanks, and as i know I can't spell i equipped my self with practical skills. Also if I did ever loose my job I am not to proud to clean I done it when I was 16 and had a small child to support and I am happy to do it again