To think that children in 21st century UK should not be living like this?

[mrspear]

See this report from the BBC

Apologies if this has already been mentioned

You could afford childcare on minimum wage 16-18 rate? I don't know what it was then, but it's £3.64 now. My childminder costs £4 per hour, and you have to factor in travelling to work and back.

I read an article based on this in the guardian magazine on the weekend, and had to fight tears as I was reading it.

I think the problem is that ideally, in the right circumstances, families should be able to afford the basics on benefits. And many do. But life is not perfect like that.

If you are someone who is reasonably well educated, have some friends and family around, not too many health/mental/emotional problems, and live somewhere like London, then yes, you can probably provide reasonably well for your kids.

But it's a different story if you have never had much of an education or money, and live in a very deprived area, and possibly quite isolated.

Bertiebots I would leave my son next door While i worked and cook and clean for her payment and do her weekly shop she was in her 70s.

Bertie - doesn't the childcare element of tax credits pay a significant portion of childcare costs though?

I was 16 when I had my child and despite my low education have never been without a job I just wouldn't feel right.

ewardo, that was me, and it is true too.. we live in a throwaway society and very few people know what true hardship is.

Having to boil a pan of water because you dont have a kettle is not poverty. Having no water to boil is poverty.

Televisions, telephones, computers, are all luxury items that we all take for granted now and see as necessities. They arent.

Even a fridge is something that you could manage without if you know how. Our great-grandparents and every generation before them had to.

Ebay has enable many people to add some extra income to their lives, even if it is only a few quid a week, it is easily do-able if you set your mind to it.

There are jobs but a lot of people are too picky, which is why all the low paid jobs are being taken by willing immigrants. Every bar I know is always on the look-out for staff. Yes, the pay can be low, and the government does need to sort out the system so that people can go out and work, and not lose ALL their benefits or be worse off.

Every school should issue school uniform vouchers twice a year to be spent at designated school uniform shops only so every child will have a school uniform and be the same.

Free breakfast and school meals for everyone.

Free afterschool care, personally in my utopian world children should be at school until 5pm every day, the last 2 hours should be spent at swimming lessons, sports clubs, craft lessons and as they get older homework/computing clubs, a meal could be provided as part of this ensuring every child is fed during the week, plus the additional hours would mean less of a need for childcare for the parents to encourage them back to work.

Child benefit would only be given to the VERY poor to pay for this all.

Noone ever comes up with a sound way of taking the children out of the poverty they are in and giving them a better life.

There will also be parents that fail their children but how about society making sure that the parents stop failing their chidlren rather than brow beat them continually.

If that means soup kitchens and day trips in the summer holidays along with breakfast clubs and tea clubs so that the children don't suffer, don't go hungry and get a better education then why not, as eventually then they will work and not repeat the cycle - which is surely what society wants a broken cycle not a repeat of the last generation.

I think that comparing situations in the UK to that in the South is a moot point, to be honest. Yes, it makes us appreciate what we have but it's like comparing apples to oranges. Poverty in the North and poverty in the South are defined differently. In the UK the poverty line is defined as a percentage of the average income. In the South it is (generally) based on the price of a basic food-basket (which is where the famous $1 a day figure comes from). They cannot be compared.

Well if you do "loose" your job you may well find that even cleaning jobs are hard to come by these days. There is a recession on and people are cutting back on luxuries.

Are you so bitter towards lone parents on benefits because you got pregnant at a very young age and your written communication is (sorry) about level with that of a child of eight?

I DO respect the fact that you may not have ever relied on benefits and you have obviously been very lucky during the last few years, but would it hurt to show some compassion?

The second coming your so right it would have been so much better to live of the state.

And you don't disgust me I really don't care about you that much to have strong feelings

Yes, let's just go like the US. Those people are poor because they deserve it, even children. Let's all act surprised when the ones in the ghetto wind up selling drugs and killing one another and then lock them up for life, age 12 or up, in the ultimate life-on-benefits-house: a state prison.

That's a great solution!

Let's show the world who much we value anyone who doesn't bring in that Almighty Pound - worthless, losers, go off and die - and then pontificate on here how evil all non-capitalist democracies are.

I agree with auntie, benefits need to reflect where you live. Debts accumulated before being receipt of benefits also need to be considered. People may buy something while they are working then they are made redundant.

Can I just reiterate that it's not just the kids of those on benefit who are living in poverty or being neglected. Working parents can be just as bad, many a working parent will blow all their money on gambling, nights out holidays and leave kids with nothing. Do we give them vouchers instead of wages.

So sad that the children are ready forgotten while everyone debates wether benefit claimants are neglectful bastards.

I'll retract my previous post.

It's an insult to children aged eight.

ZXEightyMum - not lucky made a choice not to live off the state despite me having a mind off a eight year old.

A lot of people on here seem to lack compassion.

Whatever the causes of child poverty or neglect, instead of fighting about it those who care about these children could donate money, time, clothes or food to a local charity which deals with families who struggle. Or write to your MP. Or foster. There are a lot of people reading mumsnet and watching this documentary who could make a difference in people's lives.

I think the vast majority of families just need practical support, and some need help with addictions or dependence on alcohol, drugs which are not easy to tackle when you're living in stressful circumstances.

Sanctimonious sermon over.

Oh name calling you sound very mature when loosing a argument lower yourself to name calling

Careful expat. maypole is capable (in this respect) of taking you up ideologically on that final solution to the poverty problem.

Oh dear any more name you would like to call you seem like you need to get it all out

plebshire: in UK, poverty is relative whichever part of the country you're looking at. Elsewhere in the world it can be absolute - which is a completely different and far more terrible thing. The similarity of terminology isn't helpful, but nor are disputes about definitions. It's what is done about it that counts.

ivykaty44: I'm not sure anyone has got the answers - the Office of National Statistics reported recently that the number of households where no-one had ever had a job had doubled under Labour - so even in boom times, they didn't have the answer. The need for spending cuts means that there is no more money to throw at the problem. A poster above mentioned education as the key, and that does seem plausible. Breaking the cycle of long-term dependency must surely be one of the important aims.

'A lot of people on here seem to lack compassion.'

A chief reason I no longer live in the US. Compassion often = religion, with strings.

I guess Sting was right, history will teach us nothing.

About to watch 'Poor Kids' on BBC.

Asinine: I think you're right. Offering practical help if you can, and lobbying your council so they prioritise the services which matter most to your communities when they make their spending decisions, has the potential to make an enormous difference.