to find some modern aspects of feminism patronising to women?

[glitterkitten]

I say "modern aspects" as i am more than aware that historical feminist activism has led to my being able to work in a professional job, has given me choices, has improved the general quality of life for women since etc etc.

An example of what i find patronising to the extreme is the recent protest by feminist groups at the opening of the Playboy Club in London.

wild haired, wild eyed women waved placards and protesting about how playboy exploit women, how evil men were manipulating women and that essentially, women who worked within such industries needed to be saved.

how can these women think that they need to save other women, who are simply exercising their right to make independent choice regarding how they make a living?

these women will deny / ignore the fact that some women working in such an industry (in all its guises) CHOOSE to earn a living that way. they earn a good wage, shock horror, they may even ENJOY it!

i find it so patronising. Intensely.

as i said above, i work in a professional career. i have no issues with strip clubs, lap dancing bars, playboy etc. i have accompanied my husband to such clubs on occasion. those women if anything, are taking advantage of the men who sit and dribble at them. the women have the last laugh with the money they make which is undoubtedly higher than the national minimum wage. would a feminist seek to tell me i am wrong??

Yes I see what you mean, SGM. What about when the teen becomes of age though, they can't be forced back home then. But I suppose it's too late by then, the person is already enmeshed in the trade. :(

I do see the correlation, the 'Katie Prices' of the world are anomalies, they're the ones choosing. I'd be absolutely devastated if my child were to behave like that.

So if one of our daughters ends up with a "boy friend" who grooms her then becomes her pimp that's OK because she ahs chosen to work in the sex industry rather than get a Saturday job in Marks and Spencer?

Can't really be arsed reading the whole thread but I will say this:

I have known many strippers/sex industry ladies and not a single one of them didn't a) have some truly horrendous story about a fucked up/abused childhood and b) All of them, to a woman, HATED men. Really really fucking deep down despised them.
It's an act. Being a prostitute, a stripper, a call girl whatever. It's ALWAYS an act, and it demeans both men and women.
And yes, my hair is WILD!

Not to me, Seeker, no, it's definitely not ok. I don't think the sex industry is ever a lifestyle choice that enables the participant to hold their head up high.

Some women do make a choice though, as adults, to do this. Katie Price was the example I used. I do see a difference in 'options' though, maybe that's a better word than 'choice'.

WSell, that's how the vast majority of workers in the sex industry got started.

Do you think, in an ideal world, where money to survive wasn't the issue - would the sex trade disappear? I mean, with the women and children already in the UK and borders manned night and day to prevent traffickers bringing women and children in. Do you think the sex trade would cease?

I know it's not going to happen... I just wondered.

Deep down it says to women that it doesn't matter what they think. It doesn't matter what she feels or who she is as a person or what she enjoys doing. All that matters is that she look as hot and sexy as possible and do whatever men want her to do to get them off. She is a fantasy, not a real person.

And I am fucking sick of it.

does whatever men want her to do?

And my hair is very tidy and tastefully highlighted thankyouverymuch.

oh dear glitterkitten.

I have not read all the posts-I couldn't be arsed as nothing will make me change my mind.

I am glad that women, under what ever banner, are saying "no" to strip clubs and the like. They are trying to make the world a better and safer place for my son and daughter to live in when they are older. This gets the thumbs up from me. What more is there to say.

I sometimes think it's one of the biggest patriarchal triumphs of our time...convincing women that feminism means waving your tits around in the name of Girl Power and empowerment is grinding on some man's sweaty lap so he can call you a ho and throw you a buck or two.

'It may be that some (of both genders) can distance themselves emotionally and psychologically from sex '

"Ah yes, the good old 'they're not like us' line, as used to justify exploitation since time immemorial.
Unfortunately with other forms of exploitation it always seems to turn out that actually they were like us and they were hating what was being done to them just as much as we would....

Not quite but, true, not all are alike; thankfully - the world would be a dreary, sterile place. Unfortunately, you are starting from the premise that it is all exploitation; no question about it. Clearly, many don't hate what they are doing at all. The fact that you or I would is irrelevant.
It is insulting and patronising to suggest that all who do are being exploited.

I actually think Katie Price is a hugely damaged person. Her desire for approval and love is really saddening.

StewieGriffinsMom Tue 07-Jun-11 20:11:57

"I do think if women and children were better supported, better educated and had the financial ability to make choices for themselves, that participation in the sex trade would drop.

More importantly, if people stopped supporting these industries NOW, there would be no need for the sex trade to continue."

Really... so countries with the highest standard of living such as Scandinavia don't have a sex trade? The women and men who work in the sex trade in other countries like ours are just poorly educated etc? What completely and utterly sanctimonious, judgemental bull.

That was actually the point I was making, Tyr. Even if money and standard of living is not at issue, the determination of men to perpetuate the sex industry is something that is going to be incredibly difficult to overcome. I don't think SGM's post was sanctimonious though, getting rid of the sex industry has to have a basis somewhere and if money and welfare is being touted as the reason then once that obstacle is removed, the excuses will need to change.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe,
If men don't perpetuate it, women will; many already do, just like the brothel madams of Georgian times.
The basis is as old as the human race- sex. If men (and some women) will pay for it, women (and men) will supply it. As to who is the mug or "victim" in that dynamic... well, that depends.
Exploitation is a matter for the law, which can only ever regulate.

Personally I am pleased to see the feminism topics spreading into AIBU (it wasn't a feminist who put it here).
I'm even more pleased to see the crowd of protestors outside the playboy club....wish i'd been there too.
Instead of feeling patronised I feel grateful people are making a stand on my behalf.

"If the seedier, exploitative side"

Any situation where you are routinely exposing your cunt, arse and breasts to drunk strangers for money is seedy. Doesn't matter what the venue's like. The relationship between woman and punter is the same. She exposes. He pays. Then goes home and wanks while thinking about her, if he hasn't come in his pants already.