AIBU to feel uneasy about this? (Not wanting to spark a BF or not BF fight)

[shudabinme]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1393353/Hospital-restricts-free-formula-baby-milk-newborns-encourage-mothers-breastfeed.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Bit ~ about this, all for BF but this smacks of social engineering... shall we extend it to the Mums as well, lets just feed them vegan food (no offence any vegans out there, just trying to make the point!)

I intended to BF, but took some cartons in just in case.
When it turned out I couldn't (due to previous breast surgery, so no faces please) they provided formula. I didn't use my cartons til I got home.

Makes sense. Food is available to all the other patients, why not babies? Lack of free formula wouldn't have suddenly magiced my boobs into working order.

My hospital does not provide nappies and clothes to newborns, with dc1 i knew i would need them so had a hospital bag packed

Dc2 was born 6 weeks early, v fast, i had no bag, nothing. They gave me maternity towels, nappies clothes until my dh could get supplied- within a day or so

Why should ff be different?

Wouldn't happen would it? There are cases of people not even knowing they are about to give birth, especially when the baby is prem and may not be able to suck / breast milk not ready. So formula will be on hand at all times.

I had dd2 and dd3 at this hospital and each time there were mums who took a few extra bottles for home so I can understand them doing it on a cost-cutting way. If they want to promote bf, which the pct do as we have a low uptake then more bf friendle mw's or counsellors to help you in the first few dayus would be a huge help

Finallygotaroundtoit you say ff is an unhealthy choice rather as if people were choosing to get their newborns on the fags as soon as they could. Granted ff is regarded as less optimum than bf and its in everyone's interests to encourage it. But not eating at all is considerably less healthy than ff.
No one disputes that bf is healthier than ff. But for those of us who have tried and failed to bf, the implication that we are picking an "unhealthy choice" when its involved hours of hard work, pain and upset and then finally with a heavy heart, a decision that a baby has to be fed, remarks like yours are frankly rather offensive.

Well if you are choosing it then it is the less healthy choice, surely? Not comparable to fags which no baby or person actually needs for survival. If not then formula is good. Far better than starvation. BF is not the ideal, it's the biological norm.

I have a child who was BF solely for an entire year, still has some at the age of four but will now eat only calorific toddler milk, gallons of it, and crisps. I fucking well hate that but it's due to his SN and vaccine damage. I did my best and still do but I'm not going to attack anyone else or go on threads about the best diets for pre-preschoolers and rant just because my circumstances are different.

That's what I hear HushedTones. My experience with both DC was very different though. With DD eleven years ago I was treated as a bit of a fraek and an experiment - a white woman who wanted to BF! But it was good, it was. The nurses knew feck all in terms of giving advice but they really tried. They woke me up in the night to apply a pump to me and made me sit up to spoon feed DD. In the morning a lovely African nurse showed me the rugby-ball hold which saved the disastrously-developing BF relationship.

Four years ago when I had DS I was about to give up minutes after he was born because I couldn't see any colostrum coming out when I squeezed. The team had the sense to say, "if the baby is at your breast and happy he will be getting something, don't worry" so I spent all night feeding instead of worrying.

Waaaaaaay off topic now. Sorry

Finally without formula,and vast amounts of it,my premature DC (now known as the 5 yr old) would be dead.My BM was in no way enough.

Funnily enough she is hardly ever ill.Had two antibiotics in the NICU and nothing since.The toddler whom I fed for 17 months,8 of those EBF,seems to be constantly ill and has had 6 rounds of antibiotics.

But you CAN'T FF in hospital as there are no bottle washing or sterilising facilities. You have to rely on the pre-mix stuff with teats they have (which I have never seen for sale).

But this type of crap makes me furious. IF you choose to FF, then FFS, why can't your choice be supported and education be given to you about how to do it? I am tired of formula milk being treated like it's the milk equivalent of crack cocaine. Some people won't be able to, or don't want to, BF. Their choice, whether you like it or not, is valid.

PS bumwiper a good friend is a neonatal pediatrician. she treats the sickest preemies and newborns.

she has told me categorically that for her patients, there is no difference between FF and BF. they need food to thrive, either way. she went nuts in her antenatal classes listening to the EBF stuff but had to bite her tongue.

personally, i really like BF as it's great for bonding. but breast milk is not some magic elixir that prevents all ills.

Totally agree microserf.I don't like this sort of forcing BF'ing on anyone.My sister has never BF.Personally I don't see any difference in her child and my tween who are similar ages,in terms of weight,height,health,intelligence,behaviour.

Breast may be best,but formula is the best alternative.

It's £14.49 for 12 disposable sma gold and 12 teats on ocado. Would that be enough for a post CS stay in hospital do we think?

microserf the two antibiotics that DC was on were for a crossed womb infection (which caused her to come early at 30+4 weeks) and a hospital bug.

Totally agree again that BM is not some magic elixer.I used to be very confused when those who BF in my baby group are shocked when their baby gets ill.
I love BF'ing too but if I had to stop tomorrow I would have no issues giving formula.

wormshuffler babies would feed approx every 3 hours,so i doubt that would be enough and if a baby develops jaundice then you would need to feed more often.

It doesn't prevent all ills, no, but I didn't know for example that BM contains hundreds of live and adaptable ingredients.

If the baby is exposed to a certain virus the baby's saliva transmits signals to the mother which activates the exact antibodies needed to counteract it. That is, however you look at it, fucking amazing and clever and can never be replicated.

You can "bond" by bottle I think. Skin to skin. But I've never seen a bottle-fed baby nestled next to the mothers' breast. Usually a different carer is holding the child at arms length.

But jeckadeck for mothers like you whose babies need formula it will be provided.
And if mothers are too ill to bf.
And also for prems who make a surprise appearance (if no donor mother's milk is available).

How is not providing free formula removing a mothers choice to provide it herself?

Formula is not just 'suboptimal' - it is milk intended for calves - a whole other species which can cause illness when given to human newborns.

Would people be so blase about having a transfusion of pig blood instead of human? Would anyone be equally blase about making that choice for a baby?

In all the concern about respecting the mother's choice , what about the babies 'choice'?
Even using your 'suboptimal' instead of unhealthy terminology, would babies choose suboptimal nutrition?

Im ff, and took my own cartons into the hospital, I was adamant and quite vocal about the fact the NHS is overstretched enough and shouldnt have to provide milk for my baby etc.

Fast forward 5 days after the traumatic birth and im in an ambulance on my way back to hospital, I couldnt have my baby with me, I was too ill, so my 62yr old Mum was his surrogate.

I was in there for 2 weeks, and she brought him in to visit twice a day, the lovely, amazing midwives gave me cases of ready made bottles, gave me a choice of two milks, and made her take some home so she didnt have to faff around during the night.

Well then there must be something very wrong with The Toddler.6 antibiotics and only 20 months.

Of course you can bond by bottle,or in my case tube.I could not touch my own baby for 8 days.Believe me the bond is just as strong with The 5 Yr Old as those I fed from my breast.

so my 62yr old Mum was his surrogate.

Sorry?

Pig valves are used in human hearts.

Microserf, has your dr friend ever treated a prem with necrotising enterocolitis - a bowel condition which is many times more common in prems who are formula fed?

Has she actually read up about neonatal nutrition or is she being a good friend and trying not to upset anyone?

Jesus, not his surrogate breast feeder! I meant I was taken back to hospital five days after he was born, he wasnt with me in hospital for the two weeks I was in there, he was living with her, she was his "surrogate mum"

kelly, a "surrogate" has a specific meaning, do you mean she was his carer or foster Mum?

Finally can I see a link to those stats?Assuming it has a breakdown of stage of prematurity.