to think dogs should be banned from beaches from April to September

[tryingtobemarypoppins2]

Two words: DOGS MESS!!

I can honestly say I don't think any of my 3 have been knocked down by another child.

I can honestly say that I don't think that any of my three have been knocked down by a dog.

They have been bowled over by bigger chidden on occasion though.

children. No idea what chidden are other than my iPad wants to autocorrect to it

Most children I know don't have enormous pointy teeth and also acknowledge social boundaries with kids they don't know ie they don't lick,chase,sniff,leap on,piss or shit regularly in places they play.

If you're inferring my kids are little weaklings just because they don't like dogs I think you're being very unkind. All 3 are strong,confident kids they just don't like dogs and no law says they should.If a child doesn't like heights you wouldn't berate it,call it weak and bully it into going on the London Eye would you?

Seriously the attitude on here and in our public places towards scared young children just beggars belief.

Did you try to infer all that from my comment, Mila??

If my child didn't ike heights I would encourage them to confront that and deal with it. DS2, for example, doesn't like lifts so I encourage him to use them to get him more used to them and to prove they are safe. I also encouraged him and his sister to get over their fear of the dark, prving that there was nothing scary. You do not do a child any favours by pandering to their fears completely.

And I speak as someone who doesn't like heights and an assortment of other stuff.

As an aside, my children have been bitten, scratched and generally hurt by more children than they have dogs. Those toddler years can be tough. Thankfully it happens rather less now they are 12, 10 and 5.

I think the point is that a toddler is considerably less likely to leave a wound that scars and requires antibiotics. They generally can't move faster than the adult closely supervising them.

I have no problem with dogs that are under control but its the owners that just let them run everywhere and laugh and say "its ok they wont hurt". Well actually they will as DS1 is allergic and reacts badly when in contact with dog hair, even outside.

So to repeat, I am not anti-dogs, I actually quite like then and we had dogs until we had dc's- Just keep them under control please.

Oh and just another niggle, dog owners that leave the poop for puschairs and kids to run through or who go to the effort to bag up, but then just throw it in the bush or trees.

My children are 7,7 and 6 and have hardly ever been hurt by other children.

How dare you say I pander to my children's fears simply because I don't take exception to them not liking dogs.

Supporting a child through going in lifts is entirely different to a child dealing with badly behaved dogs on a regular basis.Re lifts a child has some say in when,how he confronts said fear.Lifts are also safe and there is an element of control ie you can get out in 2 secs on the nearest floor,ditto the dark ie you just put a light on.

With dogs the dog owner and dog decides when said scared child confronts it's fear and to what extent. There is no guarantee of safety as all dogs can be unpredictable (as we found out to our cost).

I've never pandered to my children over anything. Encouraging my children to confront their fears and not run/cross the road when they see a dog they don't like lead to my son being bitten.

All dogs are different and can do damage. My children will be taught now to quietly keep away from all dogs at all times,never to trust the "oh he's alright he's quite friendly" cobblers that is oh so frequently spouted.

My son remembered the keep quiet advice we gave and very sensibly walked to me holding himself together with no tears(only asking "why me") until we got to A&E when he then went into quite bad shock-vomitting,shaking,sweating the whole works

That my friend is one brave,clever,sensible little boy not a weak boy that has been pandered to.

YABU totally agree with ILoveYouToo - it's just like the parks around here which we use all year round (I always pick up my dog's poop and she is well trained off the lead). Went to Southport beach just last week, there is a family side on one side of the pier and an everything else side on the other. Funnily enough families were on both, we stuck to the dog allowed section, picked up all our mess and saw no dog not looked after, however we did see children building sandcastles near to the biggest trail of donkey poo without complaint though.

I think as dogs are part of our society I would do as much as possible to confront my child's fears

DS2 (now 13) was afraid of dogs as a toddler, as was my 4th child and we took it slowly building up rules on how to behave around dogs and - because I will not have my children terrified of something they are likely to encounter every day - much as a fear of insects was also addressed and I would with any other fear

They have never been bitten by a dog and I can appreciate how that would colour one's entire outlook on the subject - although DS3 was bitten by another child at age 8 and had an enourmous black bruise across his entire upper arm with puncture wounds that also needed medical attention

I have never seen any dog shit covered paths and i live on a council estate with loads of dogs. Out of 3 kids all year i have never had to clean shit off their shoes and they have played out everyday in the summer months. I have also been down the coast twice this week on dog friendly beaches and havent seen one pile of poo. Not that i was looking mind.

I frequently carry bags of shit all over looking for bins.

Come down to Devon poo a plenty round here.People think in non residential places it doesn't matter-it does.

I have 2 boys and a dog we live by the beach. March to October the beach is split from the end of the pier road. Beach on left No dogs on the right you can walk them. This works really well.
We have so much fun all going together and spend a lot of time there :) it would be a great shame if we couldn't take Lottie (dog) with us :(

Perhaps people should be banned....

People leave far more mess than the occasional dog... I don't take my dog to our popular beach in the summer months as he will eat the foul food dumped and left on the beach and may get glass in his paws from broken beer bottles.

The disregard for their environment and others that some people display makes me much more angry than the occassional dog turd.

Owners/parents who fail to pick up poo from public places should be forced by community order to pick up poo as unpaid work. It is not the dog's fault. There is lots of information about how to socialise a dog so that it will not be aggressive. It is not the dog's fault. Dog fouling should be properly enforced and money raised used for animal welfare. Humans need to be responsible for their dogs.

YABU - some bad owners spoil it for everyone else. Dogs shouldn;t all be on leads - well trained dogs can happily be off lead causing noone any problems. I don't get dog hysteria and yes, i have been bitten by dogs.

Actually Jojocat the majority of N Devon beaches are supposed to be dog-free but it isn't enforced much. Oddly many of the dogs allowed beaches have less dogs as more remote....hmmm

I saw the funniest thing on a unrestricted beach which seriously made me want to ban the stupid owner and her not much brighter dog

Several groups having picnics/BBQs on not tourist beach. Daft spaniel rushes up to group next to us pushes head into cool box. He was firmly but gently pushed away so turns round and wees into cool box and all over blanket.

Everyone around in shock owner strolls over and brays oh so sorry he's only being friendly. Our group rofl at this but always remember it as not a good dog for a beach example

Some dogs great, some dogs not just like people

Mila, you need to stop taking things so personally. I have not made any comment about you or your children but it was nice of you to take the time to belittle a fear of lifts or the dark.

You say your children have "hardly ever" been hurt by other children. Neither have mine but they have still been hurt far more by other children than they have by dogs.

We were having lunch yesterday in our caravan when someone's badly behaved dog leapt into our caravan, jumped up at my son's plate and pinched his sausage!!

We also had to point out to the owner (who had 5 dogs obviously far too many for him to control as he was making no effort) that his dog had done a steaming turd on our pitch and could he please come and remove it.

A lovely walk in the Lake District in a National Trust park was ruined by the little bags of poo hanging in hedges and placed on walls, why on earth can't people take these away with them> If I change my baby's nappy I don't leave it there to disgust everyone else.

And on our walk to school on the road leading to the school there is so much dog muck left on the pavement it inevitable gets trodden in by the kids, then trodden into school.....

This is why dog owners get a bad reputation.

I certainly didn't belittle your fear of the dark/heights(which I also have),I simply pointed out that helping a child to overcome these fears is a lot different to helping a child overcome a fear of dogs as children will have far more control over the dark and heights.

Also the dark and heights don't bite and invade personal space without asking.I'm scared of heights but the first to admit a child is far more likely to be bitten by a dog than come to harm travelling in a lift.

Re your children being hurt by other children. Children don't run as fast,have blunter teeth and keep to social etiquette ie they generally respect personal space,don't chase kids they don't know or lick,sniff,shit,pee or bite in public places.As I mentioned before 80% of bites treated in hospital are dogs only 5% are human.

Personally I'd far rather be chased and bitten by a 4 year old than any dog and I suspect most kids would feel the same.

Whatever we think about other people's dogs and children, no-one likes poo - not on the beach, not on the pavement, not on sports fields. And no-one on this thread is suggesting that dogs (or anyone else) has a right to poo on the beach -right?

It seems to me, judging by the strength of feeling on this thread, and by my own reaction when my toddler was chased by two big dogs that nothing makes us angrier than an out-of-control dog - except perhaps someone taking your parking space. And yet we don't do anything about it.

But what can we do? You can't go up to other people and ask them to pick up their dog's poo. Nor can you suggest that they control their kids and dogs. Or can you? I would be too scared to do more than tut loudly, I'm afraid. The council can't afford enough wardens; you can't fence off beaches (can you? Would you want to?); you don't really want any more bossy signs telling people what to do and what not to do. More bins would help, I suppose.

What was suggested at our local football club was that we take photos of irresponsible dog owners and shop them to the council. However I would never do that, and if you did manage to get close enough, it's not very likely that they would be fined, or that it would stop them doing it again, and you'd have to prove it anyway. If the council did suddenly get a flood of photos of dogs crapping on the beach, they might do something for a month or so in the summer, but by autumn, the dog owners would be back again.

So this is a situation that calls for poetry. Nothing else will work. Let's have a campaign of poems. Frame them and put them up on the buildings/promenades near the beaches. Invite people to contribute and choose the nation's best dog poo poem.

Here's a line to get you started (think limerick):

Don't let your pooch poo on the beach ...

Prizes for the best continuation.

As long as dog owners pick up their mess and if they are 'problem' dogs, they are kept on a lead when others are around, I don't see why dogs should be kept on a lead or banned!

I have 2 dogs, an old small terrier and a 14 week old puppy springer spaniel.
If they banned dogs from beaches around here, it would be outrageous!!!! No one hardly walks on most of them anyway, and I'd say 90% of those that do, have dogs! There are some more 'popular' tourist beaches which have separate areas for dog walking, and dogs are banned from certain parts of the beach at certain times of year, but as long as you can use some of the beach, it's OK.

Dogs to some people are as much a part of their family as any other member (more in some cases!!). Yes it is annoying when you get people with unruly dogs, but like someone has said, if you don't want to share the beach with a dog, go to a beach where they are not allowed rather than ban them from everywhere!!

The problem is not dogs but problem owners. And problem owners defy the ban anyway, so good owners of good dogs are unfairly banned, while inconsiderate owners of ill-trained dogs do what the hell they like.

Public notice to the woman in beach hut number * on Wells Beach: I still remember what you and your dog look like, and yelling sarcastically "what the f** do you want me to do, get it dry cleaned?" after your out of control off-lead spaniel cocked it's leg up and pissed on my rucsack will one day earn the revenge it deserves. Live in fear.