To be heartbroken for DH

[RabidRabbit]

Who has just been told that he won't be able to graduate, or get his degree certificate, because he owes the university £6,500. All he will get to show for 4 years at university as a mature student, for working his bollocks off juggling full time work, full time university, full time family... is a piece of fucking paper with his credits on it. How on earth will that compete with his classmates shiny new certificates when applying for his first graduate job?

The reason he owes the university money as well as the student loan company is because he got deferred for a year when DD was born so that he could be around more, but he wasn't entitled to any more funding from the student loan people as he went to uni for 2 years before dropping out when he left college. The university agreed to fund his last year as he was an 'exceptional' student, and now they're basically saying "jog on", after he has paid them £300 per month for the past 2 months to try and clear the debt, which was supposed to be an ongoing payment plan until the debt was cleared. Now they want the full balance by the end of June, or it's a shitty transcript of his credits and no graduation.

I'm just so bloody sad for him right now. It just seems to be one thing after another this year. Is it too early to get pissed?

Hm, like LRD is saying there seems to be differences across universities. And by the sounds of things across fields and employers too. That should mean that, depending on field your DH is in, all is not lost. He might just have to take any put down by prospective employers on the chin though. Like others have said he should try to find a solution at any rate though.

I presume family can't have a wip around?

I'm pretty sure we'll see more of this in future with the fee increase

Take it up with the LEA as it is they who have reneged on the offer. Try to stop them claiming it back from the Uni and pay back to them (the LEA) an agreed amount over time.

There shouldn't be an increase per se in such cases because of the rise in tuition fees. Those can be covered by a tuition fees loan for UK and EU students, which isn't counted as a debt to the university when it comes to graduating.

Presumably if your husband has been paying £300 a month for the last few months or so he would have been issued with a payment plan? Does he have this in writing? They can't renage on that plan. It's in their interests to get the money after all.

Charleymouse - not that simple, I'm afraid. The LEA/Student Finance will have paid far more to the university that a student pays LEA/Student Finance. OP's DH has been supported for four years so this year is over and above that.

They have already claimed it back, they did so before even telling DH of their decision as the letter he got from uni was telling him that he now owed them the money now, this was 2 months ago and he has since paid them their money each month as their agreement stated they should. But as he is due to graduate next month, they want their money now, or he isn't graduating. If the LEA had noticed their mistake months ago, or in fact didn't make in the first place by checking how many years funding he had already had before agreeing to more, we may have stood a fighting chance.

Was DH not aware of the limit of four years' funding from Student Finance/LEA? Did his previous uni not warn him of this?

Scholes - it is the same university, and yes he was aware that their was a cap on how much funding he could get which is why he checked when he was thinking of deferring his year that he would be entitled to funding for his final year when he returned, and they said yes, of course, we will pay, so we decided it would be okay for him to take the year off and work. Then they decided after he went back that no, he wasn't entitled to it, and they claimed it back from the uni, who now want it back from him.

All such a fucking balls up. :(

The funding wouldn't be affected by a decision to defer. It's all down to how many years' funding a student has had. Four is the limit. Some terms may be discounted if a student has to repeat study because of illness or similar, but deferring a year, or taking a year off shouldn't affect the funding.

I haven't been through whole thread, but on the question of whether employers will ask to see his certificate, I'd say that depends on the type of job he's applying for. If a degree is regarded as essential for the job, or if it's a company with an old fashioned/traditional ethos, then he may be required to show it. But many employers would not need to see it.

I've worked in charities and local government for nearly 20 years and I can't remember ever being asked for my degree certificate. I've been involved in selecting and interviewing candidates for jobs when I was working at one of the UK's top charities, and their policy was that they would NOT require candidates for any job to have a degree, as that was contrary to equal ops. Obviously many jobs require high intelligence, ability, report-writing skills etc but having a degree is just one way to demonstrate that you have those qualities. Candidates who don't have a degree can demonstrate those qualities in other ways eg by previous work experience or other achievements.

It seems that the university are at fault here.Your DH is entitled to 3+1 years of funding from SFE. He used this up during his first course of study and now this one. You are very unlikely to get any joy from your LEA/SFE. However, the University said it would pay his final year tuition fees for him because he is an "exceptional" student. This is unusual but not unprecedented (i was lucky enough for my university to waive my PhD tuition fees which made it possible for me to study).

However, they subsequently changed their minds and installed a payment plan which you and your husband have been following for the past 2 months.

So, you need to uncover any paperwork you received from the uni firstly saying that they agreed to waive his fee (they would send paperwork to confirm this if it was an official offer; the risk is that it was just a lecturer saying "it's fine you don't have to pay". Lecturers usually do not have the authority to make that kind of decision alone, Finance usually needs to be involved).

If they made an official offer to waive the fee, they can't now simply say "jog on". They would need to provide information about how the decision to withdraw the offer of funding was made, and again communicate this to you in writing. If they did withdraw the offer you should have had the opportunity to appeal before entering into a payment plan with them.

Finally, when agreeing the payment plan they should have made it clear to you that a consequence of the agreed rate of repayment would be that your DH would be unable to graduate with his peer group as he would not have repaid the debt in full.

Although I don't know the full circumstances, it sounds to me as though a supportive lecturer may have advised your DH that the fee for his final year could be waived, but this was never formally agreed by the University and so the Finance dept is now, quite rightly, looking for its money. Could this be the case?

I do think you have a strong case for appeal against the University (from the info you have given). Student Services and Student Union will be able to support you in this.

unversity is not are. FFS.

The fee can't be waived, but the uni may have offered a grant to pay it, or a loan to pay it. If it was the latter, then this is what is being repaid. There may also be some maintenance element to the loan too. I think OP and her DH knew it was a loan, hence the repayment plan.

My firm's HR team have just confirmed that they would ask to see original documentation to confirm that a degree had been awarded and the grade.

In theory they wouldn't be overly fussed what form that documentation took, but a degree certificate is by far the most common (my contact couldn't think of any occasion when an employee hadn't provided evidence in the form of a degree certificate).

All my employers have asked for proof of degree. I don't know how a transcript stacks up but if it had the same value, the university wouldn't issue that in the case of debts owed.

Try to get the money together if you can, OP. Even if you can't do it immediately, if you have a goal for DH to receive his degree by the end of this year that will open up his employment prospects then if not now.

I work at a University and if you owe us money you will not be awarded a degree or given a transcript. There will be a complete hold on the account and nothing can be done or accessed until the debt is cleared.

I must say that I'm at a loss as to how someone can owe £6,500 and think they can just graduate like anyone else. I don't understand this 'payment plan' they agreed then suddenly withdrew after 2 months? Sorry, but you may have just found out he won't get his degree until the debt is cleared but he will have been told this.

I also work very closely with students who have mitigating circumstances and we have quite a few who continue with new babies, illness, bereavement etc. If he'd come to me I would have advised him against having a year off. Especially after he did two years then dropped out once before.

I think your husband has buried his head in the sand and is now claiming ignorance.

Also, if he says he has a degree on an application form he will be lying.

There are advantages to not graduating properly though, if you'd ever want to go back and do a degree again.

I started my degree last year with someone who is doing their second degree. It turns out that she hadn't graduated from her first degree for debt reasons, which meant that she is charged about £3.2k pa instead of £10k for the second degree. Apparently it costs more to study for a second degree now and she was regarded as not having a degree, even though she'd had a career in the field and had been regarded by colleagues as having the first degree - she'd never been asked about certificates etc.

The rules have changed now about qualifications. It's no longer possible to have SFE support for an equal qualification, so once you've reached BA/BSc standard, you can't have funding for another degree at that level.

Have to say that I work for a charity and my job requires a degree, I had to provide HR with a copy of it on my first day.

There must be a way of sorting this out. Could your local paper get involved - that might frighten them. Or your local MP? the uni won't want the bad PR.

Believe me, threatening to call in the paper/MP will have no effect whatsoever. Firstly, it is unlikely that they will care (harsh but probably true i'm afraid) and secondly universities tend not to get intimidated by this sort of threat.

Your best bet is to appeal aganst the university on grounds that they agreed to fund your DH for his final year, and then withdrew that offer. But you will need paperwork to support this, eg letter from uni confirming they will fund your DH when his eligibility for SFE funding expired.

OP seems to have disappeared. Bottom line is he is eligible to receive a degree and will do so once his debt has been paid. He was lucky to have been offered a loan (which I assume is interest free) by his university to be able to continue his education. A future employer will be happy to accept him based on the fact that he's completed his studies and dpme well. If graduating is important to the employer, they may even pay off his debt. He's in a very fortunate position, if you stand back and think about it. Don't slag off the university, they've done well for him and helped him achieve his goal.

Agree with AG, the university will not care one bit about threats to local paper etc. It has done nothing wrong anyway. Can the OP elaborate on this loan agreement which was supposed to allow him to graduate but was then reneged on?

If any employer came to us asking for any information relating to someone in this situation we would not be able to give them anything due to the HOLD on his account.

It's not strictly 3+1 years of funding - it's (duration of degree)+1. So I got five years funded because I changed my mind after the first year but then switched to a 4-year MSci. I know of medicine students who have got six years because their degrees are normally five years.

You can use the data protection act to ask the university for all the information they hold on your dh - it will contain all his marks, which is basically a transcript.

Scholes34 - you can't get funding for another BA/BSc degree if you graduate fully and get a degree certificate but you can if you've just studied to that level but haven't got the degree.

Melpomene I've worked in charities and local government for nearly 20 years and I can't remember ever being asked for my degree certificate. I've been involved in selecting and interviewing candidates for jobs when I was working at one of the UK's top charities, and their policy was that they would NOT require candidates for any job to have a degree, as that was contrary to equal ops.

I actually find that quite shocking. There is no requirement in law not to discriminate against people without degrees, how ridiculous! It sounds more like communism than equal opportunities!

I've always been asked to produce my original degree certificates for any proper job. Inc local authorities, where there have been several cases of high ranking managers being sacked for being found out not to have the degrees they claimed to. Sounds like there is even more reason now to insist on original degree certificates, despite it being cumbersome.