To be heartbroken for DH

[RabidRabbit]

Who has just been told that he won't be able to graduate, or get his degree certificate, because he owes the university £6,500. All he will get to show for 4 years at university as a mature student, for working his bollocks off juggling full time work, full time university, full time family... is a piece of fucking paper with his credits on it. How on earth will that compete with his classmates shiny new certificates when applying for his first graduate job?

The reason he owes the university money as well as the student loan company is because he got deferred for a year when DD was born so that he could be around more, but he wasn't entitled to any more funding from the student loan people as he went to uni for 2 years before dropping out when he left college. The university agreed to fund his last year as he was an 'exceptional' student, and now they're basically saying "jog on", after he has paid them £300 per month for the past 2 months to try and clear the debt, which was supposed to be an ongoing payment plan until the debt was cleared. Now they want the full balance by the end of June, or it's a shitty transcript of his credits and no graduation.

I'm just so bloody sad for him right now. It just seems to be one thing after another this year. Is it too early to get pissed?

[TheBride]

Those who say he will still have his degree are actually wrong. He has met the requirements to be awarded a degree, but he won't be awarded it by the University. Therefore, he won't have a degree.

How he wants to present this situation to employers is up to him, but to say he has a BA, Bsc etc would technically be a lie.

[ObiWan]

Thinking about it, the transcript is the important bit. Even if he can't get the full end of degree transcript, does he have the end of year ones listing his modules and results?
The 'shiny certificate' is usually sent out in the post months after the graduation ceremony - most people will have settled into jobs long before that .
Where you go from here depends on what he studied and what his plans were. Was it a QTS type thing, so a professional qualification? Or was he maybe looking to do a higher degree next?

[catsareevil]

Its standard that you dont get the degree if you owe the university money - even unpaid library fines are enough. He should still be able to graduate when the debt is paid off.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

Why has he only been paying for two months? Did he think that those two payments would suffice and they would let him off the rest?

Given he dropped out once and then took a year off (not sure why he would need too just because he became a father) then he is very lucky to continue and should be grateful for the chance rather than try to graduate without paying for the course.

[nijinsky]

I don't think the university is acting unreasonably - most students are in the position that they struggle to pay fees and it can't just waive them all. They would only have been acting unreasonably if they had refused to teach him. Has he tried to negotiate payments with them, however small?

Unfortunately, when you are up against school leavers who immediately do their degrees, taking years out and dropping out of courses becomes a luxury that penalises you later on.

[ObiWan]

Sorry, pressed send too soon. I meant that if he had intended to study at a higher lever, he will be truely stuck until he can graduate, but he might be able to wing a promotion or something if he is already in the line of work he wants to persue.

[Pootles2010]

Is there no one you could borrow the money off? Family, friends? Sell the car? You need to be doing everything possible to get that money together.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

I think this is totally normal, sorry. My DH is in the same position. It isn't going to stop your DH doing anything like getting a job - a transcript is fine and loads of people will be in the same situation as him. He can just get the university to confirm he has passed his degree but cannot graduate until teh loan is paid off. It's quite normal to graduate later on. DH finished in 2008 and hasn't yet!

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Btw, I have applied for a PhD despite not graduating from my Masters, and having a Masters is the condition for getting both the place and the government funding. Honestly, nobody cares.

[Scholes34]

LRD is right. It's all about the right piece of paper being in the right place. DH's is just slightly delayed in getting there, but will get there eventually. As long as you're dealing with a person and not a computer, they should understand the situation and act accordingly.

[AngryGnome]

I work in Student Services, and I would suggest your DH needs to contact his Student Services Department as soon as possible. Contrary to some poster's advice, your DH does not "have" his degree anyway. Graduation is not just a ceremony and a certificate, it is the university officially conferring his degree. Tbh, a lot of people skip the ceremonies, and the certificate often looks like it could have been knocked up on Word (at least mine did ), but if you haven't graduated you don't have a degree. It's a bit like knowing how to drive, but not actually having a driving licence.

I can't comment on whether or not employers will want to see his certificate (mine employers have always asked to see it and copy it for HR records) - some probably will, some won't, but if they contact the University it is likely that they will be told that your DH failed to graduate which may affect his job prospects.

Your DH needs to go to Student Services as they will support him in negotiating with the University's finance department. The Finance dept will probably be very inflexible (as far as they are concerned it is black and white - your DH is a debtor, therefore no degree), and so support will be vital for your DH. We often work with students who are in similar situations. He may also be eligible for some financial support, eg the Access to Learning Fund, depending on your circumstances. He could also try contacting the STudent Union. But please DO try and sort this out - it could be a terrible waste if he doesn't.

Good luck and try not to worry!

[RockinSockBunnies]

I finished my degree in 2005 and still haven't graduated! Lots of my friends haven't bothered going to the ceremony either (and they didn't owe anything). Honestly, it is not a big deal at all. I've never heard of a university not releasing a transcript because of a debt. Relax. It will be fine.....

[shirleyshortcut]

not being mean but everyone else has to fork out

i am still in debt 10 years down the line from graduating :(

and i have had to produce the degree cert for a couple of jobs

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Angry - he won't have 'failed' to graduate though! He just won't have done it yet - totally different. DH not infrequently interviews people who fake their CVs and a person who's 'failed' or not completed the course is treated totally differently from someone who simply hasn't yet got their degree certificate.

You can write 'BA/Bsc pending' on the CV, which means you are waiting for it to be made official.

[cobweb1979]

I don't know about the technicalities about whether he will hve a degree or not, but I've had to provide copies of all my degree certs for every job i've ever applied for.

[Scholes34]

Further to AngryGnome, the University shouldn't say the OP's DH "failed to graduate", rather he "has yet to graduate".

No doubt the Access to Learning Fund will have been depleted by this time in the academic year, but OP's DH would have known before he started the course that he would only have two years of funding from Student Finance. I doubt therefore that the ALF would have been able to help.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Yes, they really do Euphemia. I have my transcript - not graduated yet. DH has his - not graduated yet. It's standard. Are you in the UK?

I'm sorry, but honestly, every single university I've heard of or attended (which is a long list) has happily released transcripts to debtors.

[RabidRabbit]

We know he has to fork out, it isn't a case of him trying to get a free degree.

He is back, and now has explained to me properly that:

When he intercalated his year when DD was born, the LEA said that would fund his final year when he went back. He went back, and then 2 months ago they wrote to him to explain that they have now realized that as he isn't entitled to any more funding due to dropping out when younger that they will be now not be able to fund his final year, and will be claiming a full refund from the university, hence him now owing the university £6,500.

For those who asked why he took a whole year off - it started when I was halfway through my pregnancy which was horrid, and he was constantly missing classes to come to hospital etc with me, so it was easier for him to just start the year again the next year. It made sense and worked at the time, otherwise we would never have done it.

[AngryGnome]

You're right LRD - perhaps i didn't express myself properly, sorry. Her DH won't have failed his degree, but he won't have had it conferred either - he'll be in a sort of limbo. Depending on the level of competition in his chosen job area this could count against him. Also, I think it depends how long there is between the completion of his course and actually having the degree conferred. A few months is pretty usual (most students apply for jobs towards the end of their third year), but if it is potentially a long time, even years (which it could considering the level of debt the university are asking to be repaid) then employers could look askance at this.

[CinnabarRed]

This happened to an ex of mine. He owed money to the uni, didn't pay it, and has never been awarded a degree. He ended up working in a legal book store because he couldn't get onto any of the graduate training schemes.

And yes, my first employer did specifically ask to see my degree certificate (and my A level and GCSE certificates, come to that).

[RabidRabbit]

Thanks for all of the replies by the way, they are helping. DH is currently in the bath contemplating drowning himself or digging out his balaclava whilst I read him the replies

Gotta laugh hey :(

[moomaa]

I was admitted to a graduate programme and I had to show my degree certificate to HR but someone else on the scheme had not graduated due to fines and tehre was no issue. He had just explained the situation at interview I think.

[ohmyfucksy]

This is completely standard I'm afraid. Pretty much every university will refuse to allow you to graduate if you owe them money, even a library fine.

If you haven't technically graduated, you DON'T have a degree.

Whether or not you went to the ceremony makes no difference - those who choose not to go (I didn't go to either of mine) have graduated in absentia and get their certificates posted to them.

My employers asked to see my degree certificate.