To be heartbroken for DH

[RabidRabbit]

Who has just been told that he won't be able to graduate, or get his degree certificate, because he owes the university £6,500. All he will get to show for 4 years at university as a mature student, for working his bollocks off juggling full time work, full time university, full time family... is a piece of fucking paper with his credits on it. How on earth will that compete with his classmates shiny new certificates when applying for his first graduate job?

The reason he owes the university money as well as the student loan company is because he got deferred for a year when DD was born so that he could be around more, but he wasn't entitled to any more funding from the student loan people as he went to uni for 2 years before dropping out when he left college. The university agreed to fund his last year as he was an 'exceptional' student, and now they're basically saying "jog on", after he has paid them £300 per month for the past 2 months to try and clear the debt, which was supposed to be an ongoing payment plan until the debt was cleared. Now they want the full balance by the end of June, or it's a shitty transcript of his credits and no graduation.

I'm just so bloody sad for him right now. It just seems to be one thing after another this year. Is it too early to get pissed?

[unspoilmykid]

He wont get a reference either

[Jjou]

Yes, but the transcript would say on it that it's doesn't constitute the conferment of an award or qualification due to outstanding debts, or something along those lines. His marks would be on it, but the credits wouldn't be released.
Someone upthread said something about data protection etc. - maybe that's why a lot of Unis will give out some record of marks.

[unspoilmykid]

Would they send his transcript without him being passed through?

[Jjou]

Of course, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to say his was pending - once the debt has cleared his degree would be conferred and he could graduate. The transcript would show potential employers that he'd completed the modules to be eligible to get his degree.

[unspoilmykid]

Im sorry but you cant say you have a degree unless it has been through the board of studies and awarded. Transcript means nada.

[Jjou]

It wouldn't say so on your transcript, though you could work out the mean mark yourself, and say which classification you were due to get.

[shirleyshortcut]

so you cant say you got a 2.1 or a first or whatever then?

[Jjou]

I work in a Uni - your husband will get his certificate once his debts are paid and the holds on his account are lifted. We issue transcripts of modules and their marks even if the student is a debtor, but the credit attained column is blank, there's no mean mark (so no classification), and it clearly states at the top that it doesn't constitute an award due to unpaid fees. If your husband's transcript is similar then potential employers can see the modules he's studied and whether he got good marks and that his degree is pending.

[Jenstar21]

I've worked in two Universities, and I'd agree this is entirely normal. Both Universities would not let you graduate with a debt to the institution. The key thing here is that, without graduating, you are still a graduand - you've sat and passed the exams, but the degree has not been conferred. You don't need to attend a ceremony for this, but the degree still has to be conferred. (Granted, I've only worked in Scottish Ancients, so it might be different elsewhere.)

I have always had to produce my original degree certificates for any professional job, and I'd be very wary of saying I had a degree without actually having the degree conferred.

Good luck to him!

[CinnabarRed]

My HR department have just confirmed that if a candidate was unable to produce an original degree certificate and transcript because they owed fees to their uni, then the next step would be for my firm to contact the uni directly to ask for confirmation of grades.

I have no idea if the uni would give that confirmation or not.

[givemeaclue]

what is DH's degree in? what kind of jobs is he likely to be looking for? is there a careers advisory service relevant to that profession that can say whether not actually having the degree will be an issue for employers in that sector?

It is bound to vary between sectors/employers.

[LIZS]

It may vary but if he is applying for jobs which are directly related to his degree course (ie accountancy where exemptions for professional qualifications may be claimed or subject specialist teaching) he would need to produce the certificate and grades. Agree I can't see how this situaltion has arisen completely out of the blue, surely 6.5k is more than one year's cost. The govt/tax payer cannot afford to subsidise endless courses, especially for those who then don't complete.

[Longtalljosie]

His students' union is there for him on this issue in just the same way as a professional union is. When I was a Union officer I knew a lot of the admin staff personally and had their direct lines, I was also in a position to ring some of them up and say, "come on, this isn't fair, what else can be done".

I suggest he contacts them pronto. It was a long time ago I did all this, but this would have been the sort of situation I would have been pretty confident I could have resolved.

I would have been pressing for a payment plan and a guarantee the degree would be released on completion of payment, which I think realistically is the best you'll be able to do. If you paid back, say £103 for 5 years, you'd then get the degree in 5 years time. If you paid back £200 / month you'd have it in just under 3.

[Scholes34]

dishesinthesink - the rules around equal qualifications changed about three years ago, and you can no longer have funding for another degree at the same level. If you received an additional year's funding to do a four year MSci course, there no doubt would have been some carefully worded Change of Circumstances forms from yourself and your university to your LEA, with a seeking to discount the first year. Now that everything is covered by Student Finance rather than a number of LEAs, there is a more uniform approach to this and procedures are followed more strictly. BTW, a medic's course is now six years long (that changed about four years ago when it used to be 5 years and one term). Four years of a medic's course is supported through Student Finance loans and grants and the final two are supported by NHS bursaries.

[nijinsky]

Melpomene I've worked in charities and local government for nearly 20 years and I can't remember ever being asked for my degree certificate. I've been involved in selecting and interviewing candidates for jobs when I was working at one of the UK's top charities, and their policy was that they would NOT require candidates for any job to have a degree, as that was contrary to equal ops.

I actually find that quite shocking. There is no requirement in law not to discriminate against people without degrees, how ridiculous! It sounds more like communism than equal opportunities!

I've always been asked to produce my original degree certificates for any proper job. Inc local authorities, where there have been several cases of high ranking managers being sacked for being found out not to have the degrees they claimed to. Sounds like there is even more reason now to insist on original degree certificates, despite it being cumbersome.

[dishesinthesink]

It's not strictly 3+1 years of funding - it's (duration of degree)+1. So I got five years funded because I changed my mind after the first year but then switched to a 4-year MSci. I know of medicine students who have got six years because their degrees are normally five years.

You can use the data protection act to ask the university for all the information they hold on your dh - it will contain all his marks, which is basically a transcript.

Scholes34 - you can't get funding for another BA/BSc degree if you graduate fully and get a degree certificate but you can if you've just studied to that level but haven't got the degree.

[razzlebathbone]

Agree with AG, the university will not care one bit about threats to local paper etc. It has done nothing wrong anyway. Can the OP elaborate on this loan agreement which was supposed to allow him to graduate but was then reneged on?

If any employer came to us asking for any information relating to someone in this situation we would not be able to give them anything due to the HOLD on his account.

[Scholes34]

OP seems to have disappeared. Bottom line is he is eligible to receive a degree and will do so once his debt has been paid. He was lucky to have been offered a loan (which I assume is interest free) by his university to be able to continue his education. A future employer will be happy to accept him based on the fact that he's completed his studies and dpme well. If graduating is important to the employer, they may even pay off his debt. He's in a very fortunate position, if you stand back and think about it. Don't slag off the university, they've done well for him and helped him achieve his goal.

[AngryGnome]

Believe me, threatening to call in the paper/MP will have no effect whatsoever. Firstly, it is unlikely that they will care (harsh but probably true i'm afraid) and secondly universities tend not to get intimidated by this sort of threat.

Your best bet is to appeal aganst the university on grounds that they agreed to fund your DH for his final year, and then withdrew that offer. But you will need paperwork to support this, eg letter from uni confirming they will fund your DH when his eligibility for SFE funding expired.

[yougivemumsabadname]

Have to say that I work for a charity and my job requires a degree, I had to provide HR with a copy of it on my first day.

There must be a way of sorting this out. Could your local paper get involved - that might frighten them. Or your local MP? the uni won't want the bad PR.

[Scholes34]

The rules have changed now about qualifications. It's no longer possible to have SFE support for an equal qualification, so once you've reached BA/BSc standard, you can't have funding for another degree at that level.

[lotusleaf]

There are advantages to not graduating properly though, if you'd ever want to go back and do a degree again.

I started my degree last year with someone who is doing their second degree. It turns out that she hadn't graduated from her first degree for debt reasons, which meant that she is charged about £3.2k pa instead of £10k for the second degree. Apparently it costs more to study for a second degree now and she was regarded as not having a degree, even though she'd had a career in the field and had been regarded by colleagues as having the first degree - she'd never been asked about certificates etc.

[razzlebathbone]

Also, if he says he has a degree on an application form he will be lying.

[razzlebathbone]

I work at a University and if you owe us money you will not be awarded a degree or given a transcript. There will be a complete hold on the account and nothing can be done or accessed until the debt is cleared.

I must say that I'm at a loss as to how someone can owe £6,500 and think they can just graduate like anyone else. I don't understand this 'payment plan' they agreed then suddenly withdrew after 2 months? Sorry, but you may have just found out he won't get his degree until the debt is cleared but he will have been told this.

I also work very closely with students who have mitigating circumstances and we have quite a few who continue with new babies, illness, bereavement etc. If he'd come to me I would have advised him against having a year off. Especially after he did two years then dropped out once before.

I think your husband has buried his head in the sand and is now claiming ignorance.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

All my employers have asked for proof of degree. I don't know how a transcript stacks up but if it had the same value, the university wouldn't issue that in the case of debts owed.

Try to get the money together if you can, OP. Even if you can't do it immediately, if you have a goal for DH to receive his degree by the end of this year that will open up his employment prospects then if not now.