To be heartbroken for DH

[RabidRabbit]

Who has just been told that he won't be able to graduate, or get his degree certificate, because he owes the university £6,500. All he will get to show for 4 years at university as a mature student, for working his bollocks off juggling full time work, full time university, full time family... is a piece of fucking paper with his credits on it. How on earth will that compete with his classmates shiny new certificates when applying for his first graduate job?

The reason he owes the university money as well as the student loan company is because he got deferred for a year when DD was born so that he could be around more, but he wasn't entitled to any more funding from the student loan people as he went to uni for 2 years before dropping out when he left college. The university agreed to fund his last year as he was an 'exceptional' student, and now they're basically saying "jog on", after he has paid them £300 per month for the past 2 months to try and clear the debt, which was supposed to be an ongoing payment plan until the debt was cleared. Now they want the full balance by the end of June, or it's a shitty transcript of his credits and no graduation.

I'm just so bloody sad for him right now. It just seems to be one thing after another this year. Is it too early to get pissed?

[TheBride]

Not attending the graduation ceremony is completely irrelevant. This does not mean you haven't graduated. Graduating means that the University has awarded the degree. That's the important bit as if they were contacted by an employer, they would confirm that they had done so.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Oh, no, rapid, that is tough with the LEA.

Don't let him feel bad about taking a year off - sometimes it has to be done, of course. Honestly, I would be so surprised if this weren't all fine. If he writes his CV and attaches a note saying he still has a student loan from the university to pay off before he can graduate, anyone who is looking to employ him will be able to see what is happening. If it were me, I'd also write that a confirmation of his marks will be available in lieu of a degree cert. (so he'll need to ask the university if they're willing to provide such, just in case his university follows Euphemia's experience. I think that is unusual though, and wonder if there weren't more to the situation than ordinary debt that's under control.)

[AngryGnome]

I've worked at 5 UK universities. None release a final transcript of confirmed grades. All students, however, receive interim transcripts at the end of each semester. However, none of these grades are considered to be confirmed until the degree is conferred.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

OK (because my mates have been students recently, I know this): Oxford, Oxford Brooks, Cambridge, Leeds, UCL, LSE, Durham and Sheffield have all let people have transcripts while they owed money - that's just off the top of my head.

[Indith]

While I do hope that you can find the money somehow I am not that sympathetic. At my university it was well, well known that you have to clear all debts, even small library ones, before being able to graduate. We had reminders and reminders and more reminders about that. I am also a little about what he did for the year he took off, being around more might have been a nice idea but if you knew that would screw up finding then it seems daft. Paternity leave sucks but most of us manage just fine with the 2 weeks you get at work. Dh was a student when our ds was born and didn't take any time off at all, ds was born on the Thursday and he ws in lectures Monday morning. I was back in lectures a week after that. You make your choices,you have to deal with them.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. It probably is harsh. Being a mature student is hard, it is a difficult thing to do finanically which means that you have to consider everything, every step of the way and make sure you don't end up in the shits like this.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Cross-post - Angry, I think that's the case with some, but not all, of my list too. It'd depend on the employer whether it were a problem - I'm sure some employers will just want to do everything by the book and will say no degree cert., no job. But it's not hopeless!

[Indith]

Ok cross posted about the year out finding. I would have a chat with the LEA again, I am pretty sure that having had funding before only means you can't get funding for fees but you should still be able to have the basic maintainence loan for the year which would certainly help towards the debt.

[CinnabarRed]

LRD - my ex was at UCL. They definitely refused to release a transcript of grades to him while he owed money.

[AngryGnome]

I agree LRD, it's far from hopeless - as you say, a lot will depend on the attitude of the employer. But I would advise any student today to do everything they can to boost their employability, and for the OP I think this includes trying to resolve this graduation issue.

OP, does your DH have anything in writing from the university confirming that they will fund his final year?

[TheBride]

I would be honest on the CV

eg write

University of X, Bsc X Studies (pending)

Otherwise, if your Dh is asked for the degree certificate and has to explain, he may look duplicitous.

[Snuppeline]

For all my professional jobs I have had to show both the transcript of records AND the certificate of degrees I've listed on my CV. Nothing less than the original have been acceptable either. Reason being quite simply because people fake degrees on their CV's and it would be very uncomfortable for employer to be caught out by "bogous" credentials in their employees.

Sounds like a tough situation to be in, and I feel for your DH, but I think he needs to be more proactive with the university. If a deal was in place to pay 300 until the debt was repaid he should enforce that. Are there any other reasons why he has been delayed/not been able to pay which can work to his advantage? If he works full time can he ask for a loan from his employer?

LRD as far as I understand the min requirement for undertaking a PhD is a BA or BSc but often departments asks for someone with a masters because it makes life easier for themselves (they don't have to take too many taught courses to be up to scratch). Obv can be different in your field.

[glassofwhiteanybody]

I wouldn't recommend he should lie and claim to have a degree if he doesn't. He could get sacked for that. He needs proper advice from the Student association / welfare folk. Good luck.

[LRDTheFeministDragon]

Oh, crap. I thought they'd have the same approach to everyone who owes money, but by the sounds they don't. Sorry if I've been over-optimistic and misled you. FWIW, my DH owes more than twice what yours does, and he had no problems with transcripts or explaining to employers, so I hope he'll be able to explain it to them and get somewhere. It might be a matter of keeping on pushing for it and not accepting 'no'!

snuppeline - I just mentioned that as an example, but no, the govt. explicitly requires me to have a Masters in order to fund me, and they happily accepted my transcript in lieu. Same with the uni. The way I see it is, if the government body accepts it, he's in with a fighting chance!

[chicletteeth]

You only ever get asked for a transcript for an undergraduate degree. They never ask to see the certificate; anybody could knock one of those up - they're just for show

I have three degrees and don't even know where my certificates are!

My husband and I have seven between use and we've never had to show a certificate to anybody and have never asked for one from our employees either

[CinnabarRed]

Is a trip to CAB in order? It seems grossly unfair that his LEA can tell him 2 months before his degree ends that whoops they made a mistake and he's on the hook for £6,500.

Does he have anything in writing from the LEA from when he deferred a year (assuming that he contacted them to check that his funding would be OK)?

I suspect you'd get more joy out of the LEA than the uni, who are as innocent as your DH in this mess.

[chicletteeth]

That said, I'm surprised they're giving him his transcript when he hasn't paid in full.

[buxomwenchonapony]

A friend had a similar situation a couple of years ago, she wrote 'pending' after her degree on her CV and got the job. It's not worth trying to fudge it though, be honest. A colleague of DH was a hospital consultant for 15 years until it emerged that he had made up some of his further qualifications! For this reason I think most employers will want evidence of qualifications.

[CinnabarRed]

I don't think I've ever had a transcript of my undergraduate degree. Only the certificate.

I've just emailed our HR department to ask what my firm would want to see (one of the Big 4 professional services firms).

[chicletteeth]

Titchy he does not have his degree.
He has completed the courses for the degree, but until you are awarded the degree by the University, you don't have it.

I viva'd for my PhD in November and passed (so done and doctored according to everybody) but wasn't awarded my degree until April.

[AngryGnome]

The best thing your DH can do is gather up all correspondence from the LEA and the university which details the funding he was entitled to, and any subsequent paperwork advising that he is no longer eligible to receive this funding. His student support serives should be able to help him put all this together and advise what to do next.

Also, to echo previous posters, he should be completely honest about the situation with any prospective employers.

[titchy]

The releasing of the transcript for anyone interested is to do with Freedom of Information. Grades etc are personal information held by the university and as such a student has the right to have them. Most universities now issue them as a matter of course, regardless of debtor status. Any that doesn't I suspect would have their knuckles wrapped if the Information Comissioner ever found out.

[titchy]

Chicleteeth - yes you're right - he is technically still a graduand. But has met the academic requirements to be awarded. It's pretty common actually for students not to actually graduate until a year or more later!

[titchy]

Adn well done on the PhD!

[chicletteeth]

Not likely to be a final transcript though is it?
There is a difference

[chicletteeth]

Thanks.
Got it ten years ago now!

Re final transcript, that was from my degree in Canada; a final transcript was different to an interim one!