To think that spelling/grammar should count toward NVQs?

[sungirltan]

I made a complaint today at dd's nursery about the appalling grammar and spelling in her learning journey. I spoke to the nursery owner, not the keyworker who looks after dd. I love dd's keyworker, I think she is brilliant and I am 100% happy with her care of my child plus she makes a big effort to let me know how dd is getting on and what has been done during the day. She is and all around lovely girl.

Owner was very sympathetic and glad I had brought it up but explained that the college/company who run/assess the NVQs do not check spelling and grammar on the student's written work and that this has been a big problem in the past. One parent hit the roof last year because a card came home which read 'happy farther's day'.

I am appalled. At level 3 of an NVQ you are alowed to open your own nursery - yet nobody cares that you cannot spell/construct clear reports or paperwork.

AIBU to think that if you work in education in a teaching capacity that your written work should be of an accpetable standard? I am not cross with the NN themselves - just the poor, poor standard of support and teaching they are receiving.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. I work in a building where a pre-school group is held every morning and I frequently see notices to parents on the noticeboard containing the most shocking spelling and punctuation. I'm the cleaner, I can spell and punctuate so they should be able to!

Lequeen- the ony problem with that is because of 'safeguarding' and other 'risks' there is not a job in social care (or many others) that doesn't require written logs including the cleaning staff. NVQ's are designed to instil and test the practical skills needed for that job. Those doing the interviewing and supervising should be looking for the personal qualities.

Every nursery has a room leader, or should do so it is really down to staffing levels, yet again as it is across all social care.

Are you all really suggesting that those that cannot pass a good numeracy and literacy test shouldn't work anywhere?

'The notion that those destined for shit jobs don't need to know how to spell is the most appalling elitist toss. ' agree.

lequeen - thank you for articulating and understanding EXACTLY what I'm trying to say on this thread. Daughteroffilth too, thank you.

Meanwhile, being very honest here so try not to eat me alive, I am feeling horrendously guilty about the whole thing and regret bringing it up with the owner at all now. To be fair it wasn't a complaint but an informal discussion and the owner assured me no bollocking would happen and that she would just mention it to NN and that it would all be fine. However, in dd's little day book NN has written today a lengthy entry about how much fun dd and her had with the bubble machine and new squashy bricks in the garden. More than she usually writes. The whole piece was peppered with errors but was so enthusiastic and caring. I am a fool for letting the mistakes bother me and feel like I have been a complete bitch.

Still though, the wider issues we have discussed on this thread bother me deeply as they do my assessor friend who finds the lack of skills in young women heartbreaking but this wasn't really a personal issue with dd's NN and I was wrong to make it one.

NN will be getting a huge tip come Christmas time.

Nice to know that so many on this thread consider the jobs that have NVQ's as the qualifications needed 'to be shit', aren't these people taking care of your most precious possessions; your children and vunerable relatives/friends, that is 'elitist toss'.

Lets hope that the care of the children does not suffer so they have more time to fill in paperwork as it has across other sectors.

LeQueen, no need to be quite so rude.

You said earlier "I would always include that codecil about dyslexia. It would be incredible unfair not to."

You then made a very sweeping statement which excluded your codecil. Was only giving you a chance to correct yourself.

So LEQUEEN as well as NVQ's you would then have a certificate system so people with LD's can feel that they have achieved something, also, or are they going to be cut out of the 'certificate of achievement' system (which is what paper qualifications are), entirely.

We need a mix of qualifications as well as people, NVQ's show the practical skills are held by the individual. Most people have a adult education centre within travelling distance, the opportunity is there for people who want it, not everyone does.

I do get the point about standards of education but people don't or cannot gain these for a variety of reasons, it should not exclude them from the workplace, if that skill isn't the most important one.

I will not "bugger off" a thread which I have a huge interst in.

I will always pull people up who post ridiculous, sweeping comments about bad spellers. I did it on another thread last week.

LEQUEEN- could you answer my question?

Well they say on MN that people resort to attack when they know they are losing an argument. LQ you have told me to fuck off and that I have a chip on my shoulder, twice.

All I am trying to do is to get people to think before they start attacking the education system and bad spellers. If they started every discussion with "well they may be dyslexic" I and many others with dyslexics in the family would leave you to your discussions. It doesn't happen at the moment, people only acknowledge that after it has been pointed out that dyslexia exists.

I will continue to question people who don't acknowlege it straight away. It isn't a chip, it is sticking up for my DD.

QLB- i least your getting attacked, i'm being ignored

I did notice that Birds. I wonder why

Level 3 NVQ is rated as an A level therefore certainly not a professional qualification but even so I would be concerned about a system that allows someone with poor grammar and literacy to claim they have reached A level standard.

codicil

Then you have missed the point of NVQ's, they are to show practical skills.

"But, whatever standard you are capable of reaching, what you produce should be as grammatically correct as you can possibly make it".

Thats why some mistakes are allowed, work can be submitted for feedback before marking and redone, if nesessary. But the focus is not on correct grammar, nor should it be. In previous years people did not need qualifications to get jobs, now we are insisting that they have them but realisically you don't need them to carry out the job day to day.

This wasn't a discussion on literacy standards at higher levels it was just about NVQ's and people in 'hands on' jobs. What some of the posters are suggesting, as i keep saying, would cut a lot of very competant workers out of the workforce. I get the arguement for highering educational standards but that was not what this was about.

There are jobs were personal qualities are more important all we need is a mix of people on that shift including some who have good paper qualifications. Education can continue throughout life by gaining employment a lot of people will then be inspired to get better educated but as i said we need pernament staff at all levels. Not nurseries and care homes staffed by people who are just passing their time untill they get something better or pass another exam.

pendeen- it is counted as an A level to use towards a degree in social care because you have proved that you can do the job. You then have to do the academic work on the degree. The NVQ level 3 knocks one year off the degree because that is the year were people would do their first placement, which those with the NVQ don't need to do, they have already done it, in their working life.

There was a big problem in SW and Nursing when the diploma concentrated on academic and theory work and not practical. We now recognise that we need people with practical skills and people skills.

LeQ I'm guessing the course you 'taught' was The Blind leading the Visually impaired' judging by your own spelling and grammar (it's / its, apparantly etc.). What is the TA 'profession' coming to ?

I think everyone deserves as much input on their writing skills as is possible so that they can feel confident in their abilities to the level they need to use them at. By that I mean it is only right that work is corrected and spellings and grammar problems are pointed out so that the person is aware of them. Not in a demeaning, critical way but in a supportive, informative way. I tire of hearing people apologise for their bad spelling and just think they have been let down badly. It should be corrected all the way through school and techniques should be given to help with problem spellings, especially those that are needed in an everyday work situation. This doesn't happen at GCSE level and I think this has been a big mistake all round. No we don't all have to be fantastic spellers but we do need to be aware of the impression misspelling will have on the reader and the chance to correct common errors. A word is not really the word if you are spelling it wrong.

I don't want people to feel shit about themselves but I don't see anything wrong with being aware of weaknesses and being given strategies to help improve spelling.