To think that spelling/grammar should count toward NVQs?

[sungirltan]

I made a complaint today at dd's nursery about the appalling grammar and spelling in her learning journey. I spoke to the nursery owner, not the keyworker who looks after dd. I love dd's keyworker, I think she is brilliant and I am 100% happy with her care of my child plus she makes a big effort to let me know how dd is getting on and what has been done during the day. She is and all around lovely girl.

Owner was very sympathetic and glad I had brought it up but explained that the college/company who run/assess the NVQs do not check spelling and grammar on the student's written work and that this has been a big problem in the past. One parent hit the roof last year because a card came home which read 'happy farther's day'.

I am appalled. At level 3 of an NVQ you are alowed to open your own nursery - yet nobody cares that you cannot spell/construct clear reports or paperwork.

AIBU to think that if you work in education in a teaching capacity that your written work should be of an accpetable standard? I am not cross with the NN themselves - just the poor, poor standard of support and teaching they are receiving.

I don't recognise that at all. My 2 are 20 and 17, they have always done spelling and punctuation. It is part of the national curriculum and has been for many years. It is a legal requirement. Children are taught it.

DD2 is taking AS levels at the moment, all of her exams have a mark given for spelling, punctuation and handwriting. I think it's about 5% of the total. I really don't think teachers think teaching these skills are "dull and passe".

I have just marked final year uni exams and the spelling in them was atrocious.

yes spelling and grammer should count..

Its not impossible for people with dyslexia to be able to spell correctly.

LeQueen, if they aren't teaching the national curriculum, which is a legal requirement, you should have made a complaint to ofsted.

Literacy standards have declined in recent times but its nothing compared to the decline in numeracy standards. I know people who think its funny that they are almost completely innumerate.

All my children have been taught spelling and punctuation at school in the last 20 years

They all went to the local comp as well

Agree with you there likale, I have seen people on MN and in rl have a go at someone's spelling then say "I am awful at maths but that doesn't matter"

They acknowledge that they find numbers difficult, but don't afford the same consideration to people who find spelling difficult.

The notion that those destined for shit jobs don't need to know how to spell is the most appalling elitist toss.
Spelling and mathematics ARE life skills. Effective communication, both oral and written, is a life skill that can be learned. It has bugger all to do with anything other than effective teaching.
Given the utter dumbfucks I know who have wangled their way into the teaching profession in the past 15 years it is no surprise that kids can't spell.

As I have already said I'm doing a level 3 dip (equivalent to NVQ3) and am marked on spelling and presentation. Also, I work in a Y4 class in a primary school and I can assure you all that spelling, grammar and punctuation are drummed into the kids every day of the week!

I'm 37 and when I was at primary and indeed secondary there was little formal teaching of the rules of grammar and the technical aspects of the english language. Since working in a primary school I have taught myself so much about these things! I can do high level maths eg really complex calculus, modeling and simulations but until 12 months ago the features of different text types, adverbs and sentence structure were a foreign country to me!!! Oh and time connectives - never knew about 'em before!!

But in my class the principles of VCOP, and correct spelling, underpin all the work we do...whether it's geography, history, topic work or science.

Finally, to sum up elements of my level 3 dip have been as rigourous as my degree, we have to do havard referencing and everything. Analysing, evaluating, reflecting on practice etc...Mind you this is a brand new course and apparently as well as the L3 diploma we also get a licence to practice.

Give me a sum any day of the week.

I think effective practice and strong literacy policies should ensure nowadays that all schools are pushing grammar/spelling.. However my DP is a secondary school teacher and every year is astounded (not in a good way) by the literacy levels of his new year 7's. So who knows what is going on. Is it solely down to schools? (I know we work really hard with our kids) Is it due to societal influences or parents?

Personally, and this is only my own theory, I think that the only way you can learn about how to write english effectively is to read, read and read. And this is something I advise my own kids, and the ones I work with, to do.

I loved maths/science at school, however I am also a bookworm. I can't tell you anything about the alleged red and white theme running through Tess of The D'urbervilles - but at 13 I could have told you that it was a cracking good read - ditto Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights.

But then again, I'm just a numpty doing an NVQ - so take anything I say with a pinch of salt

I do agree that all children should be taught basic spelling and punctuation.

But I also want people to include what you have just written ""assuming you don't have dyslexia.." before they start slating every bad speller.

Oh LeQueen -as to WTF is calculus....well it's beautiful, that's what it is! And elegant. Can I refer you to Newtons Principia as a starting point (we won't mention Leibniz!)

People should have the necessary requirements for the job. A nursery worker may look after children who have been taught to read at home, or be asked to read books, or, if children have been given pencils or crayons and have been taught some words, might have to speak to them about written work. As the OP points out, they might have to complete a "learning journey". This is a written document for parents. Parents are their customers. If their job requires them to provide written documents to customers, it is unacceptable to provide these documents with grammatical or spelling mistakes.

YANBU to expect certain standards, OP.

As to whether this should apply to all NVQs, I can see that catering and construction work, or caring for animals, is a bit different.

Did you mean to add "unless you are dyslexic" to that first sentence LeQueen or are you saying that if you are dyslexic then you should never be allowed a job where writing is required?

QLB - I think if your DD has a diagnosis of dyslexia it's far less likely to make people think she is lazy or stupid, I cannot see her reasoning on that at all. Yes, some of us (me included) do think that a person who spells badly might be lazy or badly taught; but if there is a diagnosis of dyslexia then I certainly would NOT think that.

Even those of us who don't completely understand dyslexia do understand that it affects ability to read and write easily - that's why students get extra time in exams. Which, if your DD is still doing her degree, she may find beneficial so she should go ahead and get the assessment prior to her finals.