To think that spelling/grammar should count toward NVQs?

[sungirltan]

I made a complaint today at dd's nursery about the appalling grammar and spelling in her learning journey. I spoke to the nursery owner, not the keyworker who looks after dd. I love dd's keyworker, I think she is brilliant and I am 100% happy with her care of my child plus she makes a big effort to let me know how dd is getting on and what has been done during the day. She is and all around lovely girl.

Owner was very sympathetic and glad I had brought it up but explained that the college/company who run/assess the NVQs do not check spelling and grammar on the student's written work and that this has been a big problem in the past. One parent hit the roof last year because a card came home which read 'happy farther's day'.

I am appalled. At level 3 of an NVQ you are alowed to open your own nursery - yet nobody cares that you cannot spell/construct clear reports or paperwork.

AIBU to think that if you work in education in a teaching capacity that your written work should be of an accpetable standard? I am not cross with the NN themselves - just the poor, poor standard of support and teaching they are receiving.

But sungirl, what I'm saying is, it's snobbery about these skills that will hold them back, not really the skills themselves. These days, it is not too hard to learn to spellcheck and check grammar by looking it up online. I think it's much better to learn to do that, than to learn to be perfect at spelling and grammar itself.

These are skills that should be learned from day one on starting school.

I can't abide careless and bad spelling when it is so easy to find out the correct spelling. If I see careless spelling on websites advertising stuff, I wont buy from them as I think if they can't be arsed to check their marketing guff, they probably cant be arsed to do a good job for me

Yes, they should be learned. But if they haven't been, should we really blame the individual who's been failed by their schooling for at least 12 years, or should we accept that we're not perfect at teaching everyone and some people still struggle?

I do think it is different if someone doesn't spellcheck on a website, but I don't really see why it's so important in this case. The OP's child is going to have to learn sooner or later that adults are not always right and that is a valuable lesson, but the nursery nurse probably can't just google spellings in the middle of her working day.

I agree with the OP there is no excuse for poor literacy (or numeracy) and think that it should be taken into account in all qualifications

But now that we are insisting that all staff are 'qualified' then insisting on good numeracy and literacy would cut many from the work market.

Sometimes it is a case that the teenager isn't interested in schooling (it is easy to get into bad habits) but at least they are showing willing to work and if they want to change jobs (not everyone does and we need stable staff at all levels) the chance is there to return to education (free for all) to get the basic skills.

I feel that this debate crosses onto a similar discussion about care assistants in general (panorama), there should be different levels of staff available on all shifts so there is a mix of skills that are appropriate to the job. My DM, now in her eighties, was a book keeper, excellent at mental arthimetic and literacy, great as a supervisor and manager in the workplace, but i wouldn't want her 'hands on' with people, it is not her forte.

The girl at the nursery has a national VOCATIONAL qualification. She is not a qualified teacher; her role is to support your child's welfare, self esteem, and development of day to day life skills. She is not a teacher, she is not professionally qualified, she is not supposed to be academically educating your child. It would be great if standards of literacy and numeracy were higher for all young people but I really don't think you can criticise someone who is following a vocational path for their written skills. In general there is imo far too little respect in the UK for shopworkers, tradesmen, carers, hairdressers, etc., they are essential for all of us and often very ill respected. Sometimes by those who have a degree or three - and still can't spell or construct a grammatically correct sentence.

Thank you onceamai, that is exactly how I feel about vocational qualifications

Part of the problem in youth unemployment as well as in general is the lack of 'unskilled' work. I don't personally count nursery nursing as 'unskilled', but the skills needed cannot be judged on paper, so it fits in with the old type, now disappearing jobs, and it is one of the growing industries that is providing employment for young people.

Arggggggggggggggg

Saying things like "I can't abide careless and bad spelling when it is so easy to check" and other such comments show total ignorance.

Don't you understand that for some people spelling is fucking difficult. Many bad spellers aren't lazy, stupid or uncaring. They feel extremely self conscious and bad about the fact spelling is difficult for them.

And I know now someone will say "well why don't they learn?"

Well I am a shit speller, I have numerous adult spelling books, I have tried and tried and tried. I will think I have learnt to spell a word one day and the next I don't have a sodding clue, even if my life depended on it.

I am not stupid or lazy, I just find it sodding difficult and many other people are the same.

Often you dyslexics learn to read but they still have problems with spelling. DS can spell words out loud, but can't write them on paper. He can spell the same word 3 times differently on the same page even if it is spelt correctly at the top of the page. He had a lot of extra one to one help with spelling in primary. His TA said he knew the word on tuesday but had forgotten it by wednesday. He is a very bright boy who is science teacher said is capable of Oxbridge but he just can't spell.

DH also probably an indiagnosed dyslexic as he didn't learn to read until he was 10 can't spell either.

I was watching a programme on dyslexia where a marine engineer actually said he looks out for bad spelling in a cv because they were usually people who could think outside the box.

My mum used to be a secretary in 50's and 60s and she said most of her managers couldn't spell either.
I agree published documents shouldn't be badly spelt but things like a home book at nursery which is probably rushed at the end of the day can be forgiven.

bruffin - thanks for your post thats given me food for thought. dh is definitely an undiagnosed dyslexic because he cannot spell and agonises over writing letters BUT he is a bomb disposal engineer and commercial diver - both very technical and risky roles whoch he excels at. i will tell him the cv thing you mentioned he will enjoy that!

Ds is an electronics engineer so is also very technically minded sungirltan as is my DS.

My DD has only just been told she is probably dyslexic, she has had initial assessment but not official one with an ed pych. She is just finishing first year at uni. Yes it's only taken 15 years of education for an educational professional to notice!

She was also told by her assessor that dyslexics are often people who see "the whole picture" in life and that they are great problem solvers, your DH certainly fits that bill sungirltan.

My ds is dyslexic..you could try and teach him how to spell correctly until the cows came home but he still wouldn't get it

and I'm sure a lot of them do use correct punctuation and grammar ..the op is talking about 1 NN ,not all of them

or are you assuming that only the illiterate take NVQs?

Maybe they struggled with grammar and spelling at school,it doesn't come easy to everyone no matter how well they are taught

Exactly Usualsuspect.

It is estimated that about 10% of the population are dyslexic. So, LeQueen you are right to say "90% of these NVQ teenagers are perfectly capable of learning to spell everyday words"

It is the other 10% who are awful spellers like the NN in the OP.

As I said earlier, my DD has had the initial assessment for dyslexia and was told she is highly likely to be. She is at uni and is 20.

SHe can't decide whether or not to go for the full Ed Pych assessment. Her feeling is that if she has to put that on a future job application she will be thought of as stupid and lazy. Some of the ignorant comments on this thread and others on MN about bad spelling, confirm her thoughts.

Its so difficult ,my ds is bright and intelligent but his spelling and hand writing are awful

He has refused help at college because he doesn't want the thick label that people assume him to be

He does most of his course work on the Pc and uses a spell checker

or his work would look a right mess

But what you are not acknowleding LeQueen and many others on this thread, is that for about 10% of the population, it doesn't matter if you offered someone a million pounds. They still wouldn't beable to spell. You could teach them until you are blue in the face. They still will not learn

Both my 2 DDs went to the same small village primary and had the same teachers. In both their classes there were good and bad spellers. Even though they all had the same teaching they have had different outcomes. It is far too smplistic to say-it is bad teaching or the child can't be bothered.

I just wish people would acknowledge that some people actually have a problem. There is no other explanation, it is no ones fault.