To ignore DSS's Mum's demands about food because I just can't cope?

[balia]

DSS is a vegetarian. I'm not, neither is DH, but we respect his Mum's choices and feed him a veggie diet when he is with us. There has always been quite a high level of anxiety about food (MH issues) and we've always tried hard to make sure DSS is comfortable and secure that he is being fed according to his mother's wishes (she went through a phase of examining his stools - sorry, TMI).

But now she has informed DH she is going to become a vegan. She wants DSS to be fed a vegan diet and what's more, she is going to be an 'ethical vegan' so no foods flown in from other countries, apparently, even as ingredients in other food (so no Mango yoghurt, which was the example given - but surely yoghurt would be out anyway as it is dairy?).

Oh God. I just cannot deal with this. I work full time, (as does DH) we have two other DC's, one doing GCSE's right now and the other just about to start Reception. We do our level best to keep everyone fed a healthy and nutritious diet, on a budget, including my Mum who lives with us. I find it hard to manage doing an alternative meal as it is, I just can't cope with trying to work out what the hell DSS can eat now. DH says we'll just have to go along with her and feed him as we do now - but he is already asking questions about where different foods come from.

AArgh.

cjel I'm going to guess you've never been to family court, right?

Sorry, x-posted, Maryz you are absolutely right - DSS's mum has stopped contact a number of times, over similar issues - bathing was one of them - and whilst I think she won't do it again after the court process we had to go through, it is DSS who has to cope with her anxiety. She does have a very supportive family, luckily, and I do think she is having trouble with her older child ATM.

Nothing particularly constructive to add, but just wanted to say balia that you sound like a really lovely step-mum and your dss is really lucky to have you.

www.cheap-family-recipes.org.uk/planner-option3-month1.html

Here's a balanced, CHEAP vegan meal planner with some recipes that might help you all out a bit. I've tried several of the recipes recently as my lad is dairy free and I've found them all pretty faff-free to do iykwim. (We eat veggie a few times a week to keep the grocery bill down as I'm not keen on poor quality meat). All the ingredients are easy to obtain too.

I just thought it might help a bit but I have no idea how you tackle the ethical part as life is what it is, other than to suggest that Sainsburys of all the main supermarkets seems to have the widest choice of fairtrade products in it's basics range. Do what you can on this front but don't kill yourself - is fairtrade bananas ethical or do the food miles rule them out? It's such a subjective thing that noone could possibly hope to get it 100% right when trying to appease a fanatic. (Being on a reduced income I try hard to make ethical choices but have to compromise frequently so I really sympathise with you here).

One thing that seems to help kids who are fussy eaters generally is getting them involved in a bit of grow your own. I've suggested this to several friends who have then found the child who never touched peas was keen to munch those they'd grown themselves and hence get over some of the fussiness. It does take effort, but it might be a nice relaxing activity for your hubby and step child that might help mitigate in the long trm some of the effects of his Mum's obsessive behavior. Her control quotient scares me frankly in terms of the impact on the kid. She can't complain home grown is unethical and it's a form of excerise to help his weight in a non-pushy way too. Gardening is also very calming so might help a kid who is constantly subject to his Mum's anxiety as a theraputic activity for him iwswim.

What a reasoned, compassionate woman you are, balia. Your step son is very lucky to have you in his life. Regarding his Mum, it may get to the stage where her demands and attempts to control are so unreasonable that the court will have to intervene, and maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing, the boys diet isn't good. It seems to have gone well beyond what's reasonable and you/DH have really tried to accommodate her wishes.

Hmmm. I can see the point about not wanting to pander to somebody who obviously has issues with food and other posters have made good points about this. But on a purely practical level, the easiest vegan food is probably soup. Buy British vegetables like potatoes, onions and carrots (cheap, too), roughly chop them, boil them with vegetable stock, salt, pepper and any spices you fancy for about 30 minutes, then blitz in a blender if you have one. As you don't have to stand over the pot, you only need to spend chopping and blending time (about 15 minutes). If you have a freezer you can make batches to defrost. If you serve it with some nice crusty bread it can be a very filling and nutritious meal.

YOUR DH should take over this problem, not you OP. Continue as you are and Deflect all Qs from the 9yo SS to him.

referral to a dietician is a superb idea for the kids health! As it stands the "ethical" aspect of her demands make it worrying that the real risk of a vit 12 defiencieny will develop in your dss without gentle intervention as it sounds as if her obsessions are starting to take priority over health. Agree that provides great evidence if ever needed in court too.

I replace a little of the flour with ready brek in lots of recipes to boost calcium/b12 content for my dairy free son. There are so many little tips like this you get when you see a clinical dietician that otherwise you'd have no way of knowing that it really is worth doing.

Most of my children won't eat soup (sigh).
Where did the stock & soup spices come from, Daughter? Which of those are permissiable, do we suppose?

Has anyone noticed that when you order soup in a restaurant that it's usually a huge portion of bread with just a few spoonfuls-worth of soup? Annoys the [blank] out of me.

Also, who's to determine that the bread will be ethically sourced? Unless you make your own it will probably have palm oil in it, for example. It's a field day for a food control freak.

However, the MH issues affect shopping, preparing, storage of food and eating habits. Certain amounts have to be bought and eaten, in a certain order, things like that.

That is incredibly worrying. Might seem a minor issue (in comparison to other possible manifestations of MH problems) but she is very likely to give the child an eating disorder. He may take on this obsessive control himself, or he may totally rebel and live on fried crap as soon as he's in charge of his own diet.

It is not normal or acceptable for a parent to foist their MH issues onto their DCs, so the fact that she's got these issues herself is not an excuse. I know quite a few parents with varying degrees of MH problems, including OCD, and they are careful to seek enough treatment to help them protect their DCs from harm.

Is she getting help? Have social services become involved at all?

It does sound that the issue needs to be referred again to the court ie to fine-tune this new adjustment for the court to see how unreasonable it is . It also sounds like dss has a disordered relationship around food, which is not surprising . The relationship/s sound very fraught

Bit concerned that he eats different food at your table - this compounds the madness he already experiences around food. Could you all eat the same when he visits - no fanfare, just serve up yummy vegan dishes that everyone eats? If he eats different food he will think he's ill/different which is isolating a headfuck for him. It is very very unhealthy for him to be subjected to/controlled by his mother's eating disorder - very sad - and imo a higher/child welfare authority needs to know about it. I appreciate you've all been through it big time in the courts but this lad needs to be protected. She sounds like she could be OCD (re food, order of food, bathing), in which case, God help those kids

That's not to demonise her - not that you are, you sound lovely - but if she's ill, and she seems it, her kids need to be protected.

I'm amazed at how many people expressed surprise at the child being an overweight vegetarian.

Of all the things that are considered "junk" or even just high energy dense foods, how many of them actually contain meat or meat products? With the exception of McDonalds/KFC (which have veggie options) and jelly sweets, I can't think of many. Kids can easily get fat on big portions, crappy snacks like crisps and chocolate, eating between meals (the wrong things generally as they can get away with more than adults in this regard) and not enough exercise.

Whilst it seems harder to stay overweight on a Vegan diet, it can be done. I battled the bulge from my mid teens until I was nearly 30 and found a philosophy that worked for me but in my late teens/early twenties (when I was at university) I became a Vegan for a while (a good year or so, maybe 18 months) and I didn't get below about 10 stone 13 (which is still reasonably solid for someone of that age, at 5 foot 5) - looking back, of course I looked fine really but most people would assume a Vegan would have trouble keeping weight on.

But if you are that way inclined, you find a way to eat!!! I was snacking on nuts and seeds a lot, which are pretty densely packed in calories (good for you though) - loads of fruit including fruit juice which I would juice myself but its a big sugar hit - quite a lot of bread, which is the original fast food, and the uni cafe would sell a fairly tasty range of vegan cakes. Also, I used to bake these carrot cake cookies from a vegan cookbook which were scrummy but had plenty of sunflower oil and sugar and stuff in them. I was a fat vegan!

Anyway I did start eating meat again in my early twenties after a period of illness and a massive lecture from my mum who was very overbearing and discovered low GI and low carb in my late twenties and now know how to maintain a healthy weight. Of course it can be done too on a Vegan diet but it doesn't just fall into place like you might think...

It is very very unhealthy for him to be subjected to/controlled by his mother's eating disorder - very sad - and imo a higher/child welfare authority needs to know about it.

Indeed :(

Going to a nutritionist is a really good idea - firstly you can find out about a vegan diet, but also start to verbalise your concerns about the control to a professional who may know where you could go for help.

No you are right have managed to avoid the pleasure of family courts, but I do know about what isn't right for a child to be living like and if it isn't possible to speak to mother which I can now fully appreciate it isn't, perhaps for the sake of dss and damage limitation it might be worth going again? I too think you are doing fantastic job keep it up your dss will need somebody sane on his side.Well done

I used to live in a hosue full of pudgey vegetarians & two scrawny meat eaters. :)

...Oh, and the meat eaters at much more veg than the "vegetarians". The vegetarians ate huge quantities of bread/pasta/potatoes/cereals...

batch make things and defrost when needed.

he will rebel at some point im sure

I think seeing a dietician is a great idea, DH was going to talk to the school nurse but perhaps this would be better. DSS's Dr's surgery have been less than helpful in the past but we'll see what we can do. DH says he will tell DSS's Mum that he is considering what she has said but wishes to get more informed.

I do try to feed DSS food that is as similar as possible to what everyone else is eating - so if we have spag bol I just do a batch with soya mince or beans/chickpeas - and we do sometimes all eat veggie. Do lots of soup, too (it's cheap!) He knows he is a vegetarian and we aren't, so i figure being relaxed and anxiety-free about it all is the most important thing. He does cook with me, and we have recently (after another very helpful thread) been making healthy snacks and more 'real' food, rather than biscuits or flapjack and I think that is helping.

Thanks everybody for the support, the hints and tips and very kind words was feeling very tearful yesterday and now I feel we have some way forward.

If the boy is only 9 he will probably rebel and choose his own diet in a few years time so this wont go on for ever.
Ask his mother for a list of his favourite meals and just make those - perhaps in bulk and freezing them for when they are needed.

I agree with Josie-you only a have a few years and he will either rebel outright or lie to his mother-he isn't going to put up with it for ever.

I don't mean that you have to help him to lie-just that he will do it himself.