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AIBU?

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Original poster

Measles Outbreak?

1003 replies

MoaningLisa · 27/05/2011 13:56

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

OP posts:
Peachy · 27/05/2011 15:10

We've only seen stats or NHS vaccinations

Nothing private is coverd, so when you count singles, pruvate etc the actual vaccination rate is higher than the reported one.

Vallhala · 27/05/2011 15:13

Peachy, wouldn't the private vaccs come out in NHS records as a result of the child being registered with a GP and ticking the "has been vaxed against X Y or Z" box?

If not and the uptake is higher than is recorded, it goes back to my opinion that there is an overreaction about the issue.

silverfrog · 27/05/2011 15:14

I can answer that from our family's pov, scatterchasse.

dd1 is vaccinated. had all the jabs, some of them repeated as we were abroad when she was little, and came back to the UK when she was 6 months old, so she was out of schedule, and given a revised lot to get her back into the UK routine.

dd2 is unvaccinated. and will remain so for some time yet. she is 4.

for us, the risk to her health (given our family's auto-immune issues, and the responses that dd1 had) is still there.

she is as likely, now, to react due to her suspected mitochondrial issues as she was when she was a baby.

if there is a reason to suspect the mmr is not a good idea for your child (and I don't mean a "i've read the Daily Mail" reason), then that reason is unlikely to change for some time.

hopefully at some point the mitochondrial research will be carried out (some of it is being done now), and may give us more information as to whether dd2 should hav the jabs. but as it stands, she is at risk now as she was when she was a baby.

SurreyDad · 27/05/2011 15:14

If the Doh and the NHS are that worried about poeple not being immunised, they should offer single jabs, rather than trying to persuade people to have the MMR.

silverfrog · 27/05/2011 15:16

Val: as I understand it, singles jabs are not included in official stats becuase htere is no way to record them.

eg the stats are on MMR. a family might decide to have single measles, not bother with mumps, and wait for rubella (for a girl) or not bother (for a boy).

how woudl that be recorded in an MMR data box/graph/tick list?

even thoguh it is on the child's notes, it is never included in official figures.

so, the uptake rates often quoted are not accurate (well, they are accurate for MMR, but they do not accurately reflect the numbers covered by measles vaccine overall, iyswim?)

Vallhala · 27/05/2011 15:17

Very true, SurreyDad.

Could it be said that the government are worried enough about our health to put pressure on GPs to up their stats and to terrify parents, seemingly, but not worried enough to admit they have been so far wrong and to "put their money where their mouth is" by funding the single vaccs for those who want them, perchance?

Vallhala · 27/05/2011 15:18

Ah, makes perfect sense Peachy, thank you. :)

In that case I stand by what I said about overreacting and add scaremongering to the list of considerations!

manicbmc · 27/05/2011 15:19

Can I just say, again, that recently immunised people do not infect people with the measles virus. Measles is passed on from a person who has measles.

'Measles is spread when someone comes in direct contact with infected droplets or when someone with measles sneezes or coughs and spreads virus droplets through the air. A person with measles is contagious from 1 to 2 days before symptoms start until about 4 days after the rash appears.'

ScatterChasse · 27/05/2011 15:19

Thanks silverfrog, that makes sense. I suppose it's all on an individual basis. I had to stay in hospital after mine just in case, but the risks had changed so it was more risky for me not to have the vaccine than to have it.

I was just wondering whether the people who decided not to vaccinate just on the autism link changed their minds when it was disproved and did have their children vaccinated, but late if you see what I mean.

SurreyDad · 27/05/2011 15:21

Vallhala - a GP will only know a child has been vaccinated if you tell them. It may only be recorded in your child's notes if they have it written from the medical practioner that administered it. There is no requirement for a private medical professional to communicate with an NHS GP, and they cannot communicate with each other without your consent.

annapolly · 27/05/2011 15:21

My GP regularly sends me a reminder for DS's MMR. I have informed him that DS has had single jabs, but he refuses to update his records with this information. I do not know why.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 27/05/2011 15:24

Do we have any idea how many people have had singles?

The people I know (or rather knew years ago when our dcs were small) who didn't vax, didn't vax. I don't think any of them went the single route (although of course they may have done since).

Like I said earlier, discussions at toddler group in 2001 were rather heated.

I dread to think what it's like these days, what with BLW/purees thrown into the mix Grin

TheHumanCatapult · 27/05/2011 15:25

Vallhala

I do admit that if theres a case at dd school .I will be terrifed .But dd can not make antibodys so very least she be in hospital if gets more lkely Itu and possibly even dead.

But also except i can not make anyone else take the responsibility for protecting dd .

Vallhala · 27/05/2011 15:30

"My GP regularly sends me a reminder for DS's MMR. I have informed him that DS has had single jabs, but he refuses to update his records with this information. I do not know why."

At the risk of being accused of being a conspiracy-theorist, which I'm not, I find that a little peculiar to say the least. I would be insisting on knowing WHY he refuses to do so, if only out of curiosity.

On the subject of the unvaccinated, don't forget those of my age (i.e. those very much pre MMR/Autism allegations) who simply weren't vaccinated as children and have never chosen to have these vaccinations as adults either. That number may include most of your parents and grandparents.

ginnybag · 27/05/2011 15:37

I had 16 month DD vaxed today.

I waited at 12 months, when they wanted to giver her that plus DTaP, Hib and MenC, because I though that it was too much for her immune system to react effectively to in one go.

When the DoH bulletin landed yesterday at work, I was sooo relieved she was having it done today - and I say that as someone who had serious qualms about it.

For her sake now and for the sake of those too young/too ill to be vaxed, including the seven month old premie she shares a childminder with, I'm intensely grateful that if, if we get a outbreak, she's likely to be safe. Modern Medicine is a marvellous thing!

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 27/05/2011 15:48

herd immunity doesn't mean you can't get a localised outbreak - which is why you can't rely on it. means you won't get sustained transmission in the community. means your chances of getting illness are reduced. guess it's a bit hard for people who don't immunise to admit that they're freeloaders. oh well, let's just pretend it doesn't exist.

MollyMurphy · 27/05/2011 15:50

YANBU - people should get their kids vaccinated on schedule.

bubblecoral · 27/05/2011 16:00

We are another family that chose to have single vaccines, yet despite the GP being informed by me and the paediatrician each time a vaccine was given, we still got letters telling us to come and have the MMR.

When the ds's were blood tested to check their immunity after the all three vaccines had been given, that information was also sent to the GP to prove that they had immunity. They were tested so that they didn't have to have each of the jabs twice if they didn't need it, as the vast majority of children don't need the booster but are given it anyway because it's cheaper than testing if they need it.

A few weeks ago when ds2 got a rash and a temeperature for a few days, the GP insisted that it might be rubella, despite me reminding him that he had been vaccinated. It was confirmed to me then that both my children were on the register as being unvaccinated. It has just been confirmed by the DoH who we had to send mouth swabs to that ds has had rubella immunity for years.

I don't trust any health programme that tells parents that their children need to have a booster when in reality they probably don't, or one that uses false statistics to scare parents into improving the uptake of an immunisation.

manicbmc · 27/05/2011 16:03

Well, I'd rather trust them than hearsay, rumour and unsubstantiated studies.

bubblecoral · 27/05/2011 16:07

Even when you know for a fact that they are lying about numbers of vaccinated children?

How strange Confused

manicbmc · 27/05/2011 16:09

I think lying is a bit strong. Although they are clearly not coordinated enough to account for those vaccinated privately.

Vallhala · 27/05/2011 16:09

"guess it's a bit hard for people who don't immunise to admit that they're freeloaders. oh well, let's just pretend it doesn't exist."

Not in this case, Murphy, happy to admit to being and for you to call me all the names under the sun if that makes you feel better. My children are my priority, not yours. Can swear to me that faced with both your child and mine trapped in a burning building, with only the option of saving one, you would save mine? Or would you, as I suspect, put your own child first?

bubblecoral · 27/05/2011 16:12

Manic, I appreciate they may not know about every child that is vaccinated privately, but those that they do know about should be included in the vaccinated statistics. Hiding the truth is equal to lying, especially when it's about something as important as our children's health.

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 27/05/2011 16:13

haven't accused you of anything! but call a spade a spade - you're benefiting from others' actions. i certainly don't immunise for altruistic reasons and am very grateful to the NHS for providing us with an vaccination programme. More fool you for not using it imo.

manicbmc · 27/05/2011 16:14

I don't think they are hiding anything. I just think they are not very efficient. Hmm

Life is too short to nit pick over this though and my bathroom is in a state and urgently requires my attention.

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