Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

I take it you didn't google measles parties in the 50s then exotic - they did happen. Just because you don't remember them doesn't mean they didn't .

"Also, you haven't factored in the risk of actuallycontracting measles which is pretty small. "

The risk of contracting measles is only pretty small because a high percentage vaccinate. Why can't you understand that simple fact!

If everyone decided not to vaccinate then the rate of infection goes up and it is easier to catch. Yes people do catch measles when they are vaccinated but
a) the disease is milder, so avoiding the serious complications
b) the contagion rate is a lot less

We now have an epidemic of measles in France because people have not vaccinated. According to one report I have read there have been 6 deaths already.

You like quoting HPA so much but you are very selective.

from the HPA website
"After clean water, vaccination is the most effective public health intervention in the world for saving lives and promoting good health"

One last word-not where I lived. I was born in the 50's.

Second last word-well said bruffin but I'm afraid that those anti vaccine won't get the simple fact! As far as I could see with my googling, and having been asked to look at HPA, the HPA are pro vaccination.

Bruffin, can you prove the disease is milder because of the vaccine? They may have had a mild case anyway, the majority do.

Also, France has a higher vaccine rate than we've had in the UK for several years.

vaccinated children get milder measles and also less likely to pass it on

Also bruffin, as I've mentioned several times on this thread the number of deaths from measles was falling before the vaccine came along. Despite there still being a high number of cases every year, there were fewer deaths. That downward trend may have continued so even if there were still a large number of cases, there wouldn't necessarily be a high number of deaths.

Ok where were we.

Murphy - I'm a disgrace .. for.. publishing something peer reviewed?

Whereas I've only read the very first of your seven and it was flawed to the point of being meaningless - yet you'd rather put your faith in that?

I note you refuse to respond to my questions. I'm not sure what the point is of noting that every country uses MMR. Perhaps they do - what would be your point?

And you dorealise that many of your peer-reviewed articles dismissing any MMR - ASD link are accepted as worthless - by the scientific community?

"It's not fair but it's not vaccines."

And you know this - how?

After a quick skim I still find it hard to believe that people can still be unquestioning about the possible role of MMR, to the point of utter dismissal and ridicule. It's quite astonishing.

I really must read more than one of Murphy's links.

Bubbleymummy it is not just about the deaths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Side effects are still high, a lot higher than from the vaccine

"Even in previously healthy children, measles can be a serious illness requiring hospitalization. As many as 1 out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, and about 1 child in every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis. (This is an inflammation of the brain that can lead to convulsions, and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.) For every 1,000 children who get measles, 1 or 2 will die from it. Measles also can make a pregnant woman have a miscarriage, give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby"

oh gooseberry -you know how it is.

vaccines don't do anyting but protect effectively - tha tis just how it is.

oh, except they don't protect effectively, but let's not mention that.

any outbreak of a disease is caused by a minority of people who are unvaccinated. not by vaccine failure, or immunity wearing off. oh, except where that happens - but that is ok, because then the disease willonly be mild. but it is still casued by the un-vaccinated, not by vaccine failure or immunnity wearing off.

even when it is known, and shown, that a vaccine is not particularly effective - eg the whooping cough vaccine, or from bruffin's link, the efficacy rate of measles being in the low 70%, with 30% of cases ahving been immunised.... well, it is still the fault of low uptake etc etc etc.

honestly, you couldn't make it up.

there was a link forwarded to me yesterday - hang on and I'll find it. it was intereting to say the least - another "hmm, this isn't quite adding u, more research please conclusion" - but I expect it will be ignored or rubbished....

here

Murphy your second link appears to be entirely meaningless, wrt to this conversation: it finds that the rate of pervasive developmental disorders is higher in 2005 than in 1990. How does this undermine any possible connection with MMR, introduced in 1988?

If anyone's a disgrace here, you are -- this is an attempt to be tremendously misleading.

The third one says nothing at all of any salience.

The fourth finds that "a major cause of the recent large increase in the number of boys diagnosed with autism probably is due to changing diagnostic practices." Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately for Murphy and the authors, they fail to explain why numbers of other developmental disorders have not gone crashing to the floor to account for the 60-fold increase in autistic disorder.

So, nonsense and rubbish.

The fifth one says there probably is a real rise, but since there are other epi studies saying it's not MMR, then it's not MMR.

the problem is that so many of those studies are accepted to be meaningless by the scientific community then

anyway this one says nothing about MMR being the cause of the rise or not

so I don't know why you referenced it except as a bit of filler

oh hi silver

am going to get these read and exposed because they are so much rubbish -let me finish six and seven then at least we've established that Murphy's statement

"Many articles have shown that when you apply the previous diagnosis methods and account for differences in surveillance, you get a very small increase in incidence of autism if at all."

is just a bit of ropey old wishful thinking.

silver, I think I know which one you mean but I think bubbles started a thread in the Vaccination section, it will be near the top

yeah, i saw bubbley's thread.

the one I just linked to is a different paper - title "A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population"

but yt again, there will be no calls for a full and proper study of the vaccination schedule - I mean, why on earth would that be wanted

The sixth says that increases in autism were accompanied by decreases in learning disabilities, but that the samples weren't big enough to be significant.

And seventh is an utter, utter, waste of a link.

oh, the autism rate rise denial is hilarious (not)

I expect that there is the usual figure-scrambling going on, eg looking at a period and only accepting children who were dx'd before their 2nd birthday or something... which, as everyone knows is a hard task, as you get a dx of GDD first of all - and you need to go away and come back 6 motnhs later, which by the time delays have been built in etc is nearer 10 months, and then ASD might be considered, but you go away and coem back 6 months later - more delays etc etc.

dd1 was dx'd at 27 months. she had been in the system since she was 16 months, and was a clear cut case. she could easily have been dx'd by 18 months - hte points she was dx;d on were apparent at that point.

and she is severe.

when you consider that the majority of people get fobbed off until their child is failing at school - so 5/6 years old - easy enough to say there is no rate rise, as the patients are too busy falling thorugh all the cracks in the system...

Thanks Silver

That Denmark study dx'd at around four and counted tranches of vaccinated but undiagnosed children in the "non-autistic" group - despite a gap of three years between vaccination and possible dx

Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population

Where's the harm in posting twice

If Murphy or Bruffin read that I will eat my trousers.

yep, the figures always get fudged...