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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Measles Outbreak?

1003 replies

MoaningLisa · 27/05/2011 13:56

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

OP posts:
bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 07:34

1 in 8-10,000 figure here

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 07:36

I wonder why the US figure is so different....

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 07:55

Sorry that you have gone bfc-I have found your posts very sensible, the last one sums it up. I should hide the thread too and stop replying.
Maybe your mother was relaxed with measles parties, bubbley, if there was vaccine, since you are younger. I hadn't been vaccinated so we didn't hold these parties.

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 31/05/2011 08:04

Well, for me what just about sums it up is the last line in the table you posted bubbley.

Risk of death following measles: 1 in 8,000. Risk of death following MMR: effectively zero.

No brainer IMO.

Personally I wouldn't be so complacent about antiobiotics and being able to tackle the secondary infections. It might not be as easy as it was 20 years ago.

BFC: If you're still around, great posts.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 08:06

Exotic, we didn't go to one, she just remembers them. I suppose people always have had different worries about diseases. Lookat chickenpox. Some people want their children to catch it and others are terrified and go out of their way to get the vaccine privately. No doubt if it vacant available on the Nhs, far more people would be vaccinating against it and people would be horrified if you didn't - like what has happened in the US.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 08:06

vacant = became

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 08:09

I wonder if her memory is correct-especially as she didn't go to one!

Risk of death following measles: 1 in 8,000. Risk of death following MMR: effectively zero.

I would agree-no consolation to the one in 8000!

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 31/05/2011 08:24

You don't need to be 'terrified' of a disease in order to do simple maths and choose to vaccinate.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 08:38

She's still pretty sound of mind exotic! :)

Also, you haven't factored in the risk of actuallycontracting measles which is pretty small. Do you know the fatality rate for swine flu was less than that? Not as many people worried about not getting the swine flu vaccine...

Murphy, are you talking about the chickenpox vaccine? That's what my last post was referring to.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 08:43

Sorry, the risk from swine flu was greater than that.

MurphyWasAnOptimist · 31/05/2011 08:43

No, bubbley, you were suggesting that people are irrationally terrified of diseases - chicken pox was an example. You can have different worries about a disease, but the fact is that there is a certain risk and that risk doesn't change whether you're terrified or complacent about the disease, it's only your perception of the true risk which changes. You obviously are very complacent about disease but that doesn't make measles any less dangerous.

I don't want to get in to the whole chicken pox vaccine debate as chicken pox is clearly a very different disease with much less mortality and morbidity associated with it and this thread is about measles.

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 08:52

As I remember it people were queueing up for swine flu vaccine, there wasn't enough and it went pregnant women and babies first-tempers wereraised that it wasn't available. Doctor's surgeries had notices plastered all over the doors saying 'don't come in with symptoms-phone......' And this is all when it never got to epidemic proportions-imagine the panic if it had!

Have you really had conversations recently with your mother over measles parties-I haven't -it just doesn't crop up. I remember, without relying on anyone else, that we didn't.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 08:55

Murphy, I was suggesting that people are irrationally terrified of chickenpox, yes. As you've said yourself, it has a low rate of morbidity and mortality but if you look at the US, where it is offered routinely, people are terrified of it. I think having a vaccine against a disease does increase the fear of it. Look at mumps and rubella - how many times do people discussing the MMR refer to them as 'deadly diseases'?

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:01

sorry, I would just like to come back on something I said yesterday - I have been in and out f this thread, as have been a bit off colour in RL.

wrt the whooping cough vaccine info I posted. The stat I meant to post was that the same proportion of immunised and unimmunised children contracted whooping cough - which is vastly different from "half the cases were in immunised children"

at "well, it worked ofr me and others" being taken as proof positive that the vaccine is effective, btw (even though, since you actually contracted whooping cough, it didn't really work al that well, did it?) - how about the same courtesy being extended to people who say that a vaccine is ineffective, or worse, dangerous, due to the reaction that they have seen in their child and in others around them? no, thought not.

also pmsl at bigfatcath's "I have worked in SEN for 12 years" suddenly making her the authority on vaccine damaged children. that's about as good as "my best friend is gay, no honestly, he is..." why on earth does working in a school for 12 years sudenly lend more weight to why there is (or isn't) a rise in ASD figures, than maybe someone who has been heavily involved in the research end of the ASD community?

Murphy: various different vaccines and diseases have been discussed on this thread - not sure you can call the shots as to what people want to discuss.

bubbley is right - you can see the difference in how chicken pox is viewed between here and the USA as part of how having a vaccination for a disease changes the perception of that disease. it is no fun having chicken pox in America (dd1 did). no fun at all - we were practically put into an isolation unit - this despite the doctor we saw knowing virtually nothing about chicken pox anyway...

oh, and someone else mentioned upthread about how if, you go to the doctor with an immunised child who is presenting with sympotms of measles - no tests are doen, etc, cannot possibly be measles as have had the jab (Hmm) and all you end up with is being sent away with a "oh, it must be a measles like virus" - this is true, and therefore totally skews any figures that anyone wants to give on: effectiveness of vaccine, length of immunity, numbers of cases etc.

if the DOH was serious about anyhtign at all to do with measles - the first thign they coudl do woudl be to actually investigate how many cases there are int he first place.

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 09:01

I have never seen them referred to as deadly diseases. Rubella is dangerous for unborn babies which is why people had German Measles parties.
If they are all getting muddled it just goes to show that vaccine has made them complacent and it isn't a good idea to go back to them.
It all seems a bit unconsistent,one post measles is nothing to be feared and people wanted their DC to get it- and next mumps is deadly!

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 09:04

I wouldn't dismiss someone with12yrs of experience with SN. She wasn't liked because she didn't fit with your views silverfrog-had she been backing you up -you would have said 'listen to bfc with her 12yrs experience'!!!

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:05

exotic - people often quote that mumps is a serious and occasionally fatal illness.

if you dare to suggest that maybe you would rather prefer your child to catch wil mumps, then posters are up in arms that you are a terrible and cruel mother, who wants their child to suffer etc etc.

honestly - read back some of the vax threads. it all gets a bit OTT, tbh.

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:08

I haven't dismissed her, exotic. nor do I dislike her.

but I do not accept her premise that premature births are accountable for the rise in ASD rates - the numbers do not stack up.
nor do I agree with her that it is impossible for a regression into autism to happen after vaccination.

it is perfectly possible to disagree with someone and not dislike them - what an extraordinary position to take.

and as for the 12 years experience bit - well, we can all play that game. eg I have a lifetime's experience, and my experience is tellign me somehting very different - oh, but you don't like that, because it doesn't agree with what you are saying Hmm Hmm

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 09:08

I think people are way out of touch with disease because of vaccine. We did have mumps parties but we didn't have measles parties.

bubbleymummy · 31/05/2011 09:08

Exotic, have a look at the figures here

37% uptake in the clinical risk groups. 20% in healthy children. The vast majority of people did not want the vaccine.

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 09:09

I didn't say that you disliked her-just that you disliked what she was saying.

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:10

oh, adn no, I wouldn't have said "listen to bfc with ehr 12 years experience" - I woudl have said "listen to Xpoint, it is relevant/valid because Y"

my last GP had 20+ years experience - still didn't make him an expert in ASD (first thing he said to me when I mentioned dd1's ASD - "oh, but she can't be - she's a girl!" )

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:10

sorry, exotic, my misreading - I thought when you said "she wasn't liked because..." you meant the poster.

what a odd mistake for me to make Confused

silverfrog · 31/05/2011 09:12

and, in fact, I did agree with a couple of points she made (and manged ot do so without bowing down before her 12 years experience!), so not really sure what you are on about, tbh.

exoticfruits · 31/05/2011 09:12

I shall say for the 3rd time -we must agree to differ-take my own advice and shut up this time.We can waste time and go around in circles for ever! Grin

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