Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

yes yes until you get answer you like you'll hypothesise about conspiracy and dark forces where none exist

I'm not quoting myself there, it's someone who's done an enormous amount of research and knows lots more about it than you two and there's lots more detail.

You can just keep insisting on your point of view or you can take this opportunity to really learn something about a subject you have very strong opinions about.

sm you are fantasising, why don't you do some reading

Does anyone on here know what Gooseberry is supporting?

Maybe you should get a good night's sleep and have a little think about it. It's awfully late and you must be tired.

ive read the wakefield gmc hearing and other pertinent related literature
but evidently as i dont agree with you g'berry you will seek to dismiss that pov
but hey you would say that wouldn't you

well generally one can only make a judgement having read two sides

that's just normal, I mean you can do it your way if you like but don't pretend you're well informed

you've chosen to read what supports your point of view

unlike most non-vaccinators, who start of as pro-vaccine and change their minds so they've seen two lots of evidence and made a judgement accordingly

I especially like the doctors who do that

lol,i know moon landing happened,that obama is us citizen
i dont need to read some quacky wacky thetrutheydontwantyoutoknow.com sites who swear differently. that isnt balanced reading thats pissing about with quacks who spout various conspiracy theories

I fact I don't think St Andrew is a non-vaccinator.. neither are most of the "questioners" on that thread, I think I'm just about the only one there. Some would like to be vaccinated but the risk is too great, others are unsure of the risks but would have them singly, and so on.

I see it all now

Gooseberry lives under a bridge and likes to jump out and tease people

Waste of time for all of us.

why are you talking about the moon landing? isn't that a little off topic?

sm you aren't reading - you're choosing not to - you're just happy not to know

ignorance is bliss

Are you accusing me of being a troll?

Just because I disagree with you and have posted something you really ought to read, but are uncomfortable with, so you've come out with the troll accusation?

Are you so afraid that you have to do that?

Why don't you just read up a little more, read that thread, you'll truly find some solid information there. How can you dismiss it without even looking at it?

because not all information is equal.people have agendas,and axes to grind

yes like you

peer-reviewed links on that thread too

"not all information is equal"

christ that's orwellian

one generally needs to look at information to make that call

unless, of course, you're scared

what thread?are you digging up mn of yore,as if i actually recall who said what and when

how tiresome

clearly you feel Mr Wakefield is maligned,thats your opinion.

It's like Windward resorting to abuse and saying there's no evidence. Well there is, actually, lots of evidence that there could be a link and that more research is needed. But it's either abuse, or troll accusations.. very tiresome.

I just linked to a thread sm. Like, just now. Why are you here, is it just to post and not read? I guess it must be.

I still want to know if there is a country in the world which doesn't give the mmr. Surely someone must know? Even if these bizarre and outlandish conspiracy claims were true for the UK, surely some other country must have seen the light?

Piglet, I was commenting on missinglalaland's figures. She had based her calculations on a 1 in 1000 death rate rather than the 1 in 8-10,000 figure and had factored in the risk of contracting the disease which gave 1 in 1 million which I suppose would be closer to 1 in 10 million based on her calculations (if you use 1 in 10000.) she also said the risk of a life threatening reaction was 1 in 4,000,000 but apparently the incidence of anaphylactic shock (a life threatening reaction) from the vaccine is 1 in 100,000.

It's worth noting that having a vaccine guarantees exposure to potential side effects of that vaccine, not vaccinating does not guarantee that you will catch measles. Before you spout the herd immunity argument at me remember that we don't have herd immunity to measles in the UK and haven't for some time.

I got my figures from the CDC (Atlanta Centre for Disease Control, I couldn't find UK figures.) I had my children vaccinated against chicken pox while on holiday in FL! This is a copy of the fact sheet they gave me:
www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-mmrv.pdf
The vaccine was actually MMR+Chicken pox. I realise here that kids just get MMR. I made the leap that MMR alone couldn't be more dangerous than MMR+chicken pox.
The one in 1000 death rate was actually 1 or 2 in every thousand. I was being conservative.
www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

I totally agree that there is a lot of guessing and choosing figures here. And, you have to trust the figures that the CDC gives out in the first place. If you think the CDC is mistaken or lying, then all bets are off.

Point is, the risk is small either way in rich countries. It still is slightly less if you vaccinate. I do think the risk for the unvaccinated will rise as fewer kids are vaccinated and there are more vectors for the disease running around.

For my kids vaccination makes sense because we like to travel and we live in London where all kinds of people from all over the world are washing through. Also, there are no contra-indications for my children against vaccines.

Only one thing is going to change people's minds-there will be an epidemic, people will actually see for themselves what measles can do-and only then will they realise how lucky we are to have free immunisation.
We are very healthy in the west, people's memories are short and they think that with improved standard of living, medical knowledge etc they are safe-even if they do get an infectious disease.
I have had a 6 yr old seriously ill for a week in hospital. After that I resolved not to worry about anything again-everything else can be fixed but health can't always be fixed. I just wouldn't risk it.
We have had herd immunity because in the past people knew what diseases did and they were terrified of them. All those people who think there is a conspiracy or their DCs will have natural immunity have the advantage of having had all the vaccines themselves as a DC. (there will be very few people posting who haven't). When I was at school we all lined up for injections, I don't recall anyone being exempt because their mother didn't believe in it-this is just a luxury that today's mothers have because of the herd immunity of the past.

Exotic, we don't have herd immunity to measles in the UK and we haven't for some time.

Missing, I'll look at your links later but I'm pretty sure they are based on world wide figures. Unfortunately, complications from measles in developing countries are much more likely ( due to malnutrition mainly - the WHO have found that supplementing with vitamin A reduces complications by half.) but this gives a distorted view of figures in developed countries.