Measles Outbreak?

[MoaningLisa]

I am sure you have all heard on the news that there has been an outbreak of measles.

Papers, Schools, Hv, Drs are saying if you or your child haven't had the vaccine(s) now would be a good time to get it done.

I cant help but think though that the parents who haven't and wont get their child vaccinated are putting their children at risk.

Aibu to think that its just bloody selfish and very daring to play with their own childs life?

I am with you all the way, Riven.

But the belief here is that if you have an unvaccinated child, you are relying on herd immunity. you just are. whatever you say.

Nit me. Vaccination is uncommon among the people i mix with.

oh, but you are, though, according to some - it's downthread a bit. if you don't go regularly tripping off to India and Africa, then you are relying on herd immunity, in this cosy little isle

if youcan't come up with a reason why you wouldn't go to India or Africa with an unimmunised child, then you are completely and utterly relying on everyone around you to keep your child safe, and are lucky to live in the luxury to be able to do so...

honestly, you couldn't make it up...

Well, seeing as we don't have epidemic levels of whooping cough, polio, measles, diphtheria, smallpox etc then you are in a position of luxury and are benefiting from herd immunity.

Vaccines work, herd immunity benefits those who can't/won't vaccinate. I'm struggling to see what the argument is here?

I'm still struggling to see what you would actually have me do, wrt dd2 and jabs, tbh.

no one answers that one...

Silverfrog you have said that your children are at risk from vaccines. No one here has said that if your children are at high risk from vaccination that you should have it done.

I am 27, and haven't had my MMR. I was severely allergic to egg as a baby and stopped breathing a number of times, and my Mum was advised not to give it to me. So I have never had it. I went for a tetanus jab recently, and it's now diptheria and polio as well all in one jab

"how do you explain the fact that the work has been replicated around the world?"

It isn't a fact, and it isn't true.

If you won't accept rational argument, and still claim the fraudulent research has not been discredited, then there is no point in anyone taking you seriously.

well, none of mine have had the mmr. It was our own personal choice. And I back wakefield all the way.

I do not feel that those who have chosen to have their dc vaccinated are wrong either. That is the choice they have as parents, doing what they feel is best for their children.

Each to their own.

Exotic, not sure why you have decided to look at cases by decade tbh. Measles tends to have outbreaks every few years which is why there are peaks and troughs. It's the fatality figures that are interesting. In the early 40s, before the widespread use of antibiotics, there were many more deaths from measles. These decreased considerably once there was something available to treat the potentially fatal secondary infections such as pneumonia. Despite the vaccine reducing the number of cases (or potentially increasing the likelihood of an alternative diagnosis due to vaccine status) the number of deaths did not decrease at the same rate. The vaccine did not have anywhere near the same impact as antibiotics did. The relevance of sanitation was prior to 1940 at the turn of the century when many people lived in very crowded, dirty conditions. The death figures then were in the thousands so by the 1940s these had dropped considerably due to improvements in living conditions.

I just had a look at the lab reports of hib since 1990 on the hpa website. The numbers did decrease after 1992 but they started to increase again at the end of the 90s and are now decreasing again so it seems that it may be a bit cyclical as well. With this in mind, i wonder was there an unusually large outbreak in the early 1990s that make the decrease look more dramatic? I think it may be a bit too soon to tell. In any case, I'm curious about why a vaccine was introduced for a disease with less than 900 cases ( cases again, not deaths) a year. It seems a bit drastic to vaccinate an entire population for such a small number of cases.

I wonder how many of the people here talking about 'debt to society' have had their own immunity levels checked recently. Perhaps they should all be quarantined until their immunity can be confirmed. For that matter, perhaps all vaccinated children should be quarantined too until we can confirm that their vaccine actually did provide immunity. Until we know that they should be prevented from using all community facilities for the good of society. It's very easy to ignore the fact that unless you know you're immune you can just as easily carry and spread the diseases. Vaccinating offers no guarantees and doesn't last for life you know :)

Let's also remember that the parents of vaccine damaged children didn't know that their child would be damaged. It's a ridiculous argument to say all healthy children should be vaxed but not the ones who have had reactions etc. those children WERE healthy before they reacted badly to the vaccine. Every vaccine is a gamble because you don't know for sure how yourchild will react.

Also worth noting that we don't have herd immunity in the UK anyway. The percentage of vaccinated people is too low. So no point in relying on that folks! :) It's a good job I don't.

can't believe someone would put a smiley beside a proud statement that we can no longer rely on herd immunity because vaccination rates are so low.

Well, that's definitely something to laugh about isn't it? I bet the parents of a kid who is immuno-compromised are rolling on the floor with tears of laughter at that one. Ha ha ha. We've been spreading all this misinformation about the MMR and we've done such a great job that vaccination levels have dropped to the point where there's no herd immunity so now your child who CAN'T be immunised and for whom measles could be lethal is now more likely to get it. Ha ha ha.

I took the decade to get a trend-individual years are up and down.
It was quite obvious, (not numbers that I did) that deaths were way, way down -due I dare say to antibiotics. However I found that cases went right down once there was a vaccine.
It is enough to convince me anyway.
I would say that we have a herd immunity in UK. I don't know anyone my age who didn't have polio, diptheria, tetanus-mainly because parents had seen the actual disease and it terrified them.
Maybe when people actually see their babies with measles they will see the point of protection.

Knobcheese, just to check, when you say "And I back wakefield all the way"
what do you think you are backing? Do you think he proved that MMR causes Autism or something?

I think that's exactly it exotic. I've been thinking about why vaccinations are in the headlines and I think part of the problem is that you don't see the children saved. Much more dramatic to talk about the teeny tiny proportion of children who may have some reaction to the vaccine. But once Riveninside's brain damage group is filled to bursting with children who have suffered brain damage from measles, I reckon people won't be so complacent. Just makes me sad to think of all the unnecessary suffering because of all this stupidity and idiocy about vaccinations.

I am older than most on here. I remember at school that, before my time polio had been a terrifying illness-we all knew people who had been in iron lungs, people with legs in callipers etc. Now that we do have herd immunity (denied by bubbleymummy who I bet has had jabs for diptheria, smallpox, TB and the rest-with the herd) people don't realise the sheer terror of these illnesses.
Measles wasn't as bad, some DCs just had a rash and raised temperature, others were not so lucky.
Meningitis now strikes terror into people.It kills. (not everyone-but would you want your DC to take their chance?)
It will take a huge measles epidemic and people actually seeing their babies and toddlers with the disease before they see that actually a vaccine is a better option for most. High risk DCs shouldn't be vaccinated-but isn't it better for them to be protected by the herd? IMO it is.

oo gosh im confused my 11 month old has had her three sets of injections due another one next month does it mean i have to get it done early??? Please im unsure now :(

"can't believe someone would put a smiley beside a proud statement that we can no longer rely on herd immunity because vaccination rates are so low. "

That same poster once said that it didn't matter that 18 people still die an hour from measles, because they all live in the 3rd world and didn't live productive lives. lovely!

oo gosh im confused my 11 month old has had her three sets of injections due another one next month does it mean i have to get it done early??? Please im unsure now sad

Does anyone know please !!!

Happy4eva

I would imagine that medical advice would be to just continue with the vaccine schedule.
But if you are concerned just go and see your gp or health visitor.

Please try not to be anxious.

Thank you
My doctors is not open till tuesday but i will double check then.
I did just have a sneaking look on google lol and it seems that baby under one cannot have MMR because they react or somthing but i will double check with the doctors :)

Yes. Do check

But try not to be too anxious. I and all my siblings and cousins( more than 30 of us) had the measles with no problems.

You will also hear quite quickly if there is measles in your area and need to be more careful.

I am sure your dd will be fine.

Riven, I had a huge 'debate' with you on this very subject when I first joined MN a couple of years ago. I learned a lot, and realised I had been a bit stupid. Didn't eat humble pie though.

Have namechanged since

Happy4eva, I think they give MMR at 1 yo as that's when it will best boost immunity. The only benefit in giving it early is if your child has been actually exposed to the virus and they can sometime then give a prophylactic immunisation within 48-72 hours for measles. Since this is now a distinct possibility as there is no herd immunity in the Uk, it's worth knowing.

Knobcheese, if you still believe the Wakefield rubbish now, then you are a credulous fool. His methods AND his theories have been completely discredited. But then, I could write a dissertation on why it's rubbish, but I suspect mere facts wouldn't get in the way of your beliefs.

OK, I'll admit that I am pro-vaccine. My kids are up to date on all the British vaxes and more! I've just looked up the risks according to the CDC (US organisation, couldn't find UK stats) for the MMR vaccine.

The biggest risk of MMR is that your child will run a fever after having it. This is pretty common for a lot of vaccines. We mums are pretty comfortable with this I think. Your odds of a severe reaction that could be life threatening are 1 in 4,000,0000.

The risks to unvaccinated children living in the UK of dying of measles is 1 in 1,000,000 (I took 90% as my vaccination rate, the fact there are 11 million children 0-18 in the UK, and a measles rate of 334 for the first three months of this year to arrive at that figure, and that measles kills at least 1 in every 1000 chidren who contract it.)

For me, 1/4M is a better risk than 1/1M. These are odds for average kids. It's obviously different if you have some specific family history or known allergy.