In thinking people that don't keep their body hair under control are weird ?

[luvvinlife]

I've seen topics on here about it and really have trouble understanding why anyone would want hairy legs or even worse hairy armpits and a crotch like a badly kept privet ?

I shave my pits and legs, but only if I am going to be wearing something which might make them visible. Which of course means I am not doing it for ME - I am doing it because I think of other people see me with hairy pits and gorilla legs they will judge.

So yes, I am lowing society to persuade me to act in a certain way because "that is what women are supposed to do". If that is not a feminist issue I dont know what is...

Why would I want to read a book that tries to tell me shaving my armpits means I'm a zombie that has been brainwashed into doing it by men and society and then spend the rest of my life trying to get a non existant chip off my shoulder ?

I do what I do with my body because its what I like. You are as bad as those you say you are trying to educate me about as you are trying to get me to see that what you think is right, not what I think is right for me.

I didn't suggest a book that tells you you're a brainwashed zombie. I suggested The Beauty Myth, Beauty and Misogyny or Living Dolls. They are all excellent.

no answers yet then OP?

I don't give a flying fuck if the rest of the world are hairless or wearing it in plaits.

Just don't judge/pick on me for choosing to treat my own body hair as I like.

If the OP thinks both men and women should be hair free/less hairy/better kept hairiness, how is that sexist?

oakmaiden but that is a problem internal to you, you are worried about what people will think of you and your choices.

unlike quite a few women in my circle of acquaintance, i don't use botox, and i don't have fake boobs. but i don't worry about it. i don't feel oppressed by other women's line free foreheads or pert tits. and i don't feel remotely self conscious that other people will judge me for not having those things.

But, luvvinlife, it doesn't take a great deal of interrogation and self-reflection to ask the question: "Why do I think it's right for me?" It's not just some individual idea that occurred to you, is it? I don't think those of us who realise it's a feminist issue have a chip on our shoulder. We're just able to look at our own responses to societal pressures critically.

In my culture men are also required to shave their armpits and genital area for hygiene reasons after they reach puberty.

I think it is much nicer all round.

Saying that.. I do not always have the time or energy though I used to shave my legs daily. Right now with pregnancy hormones to boot, I look like Teen Wolf

My DH isn't keen on it but thankfully is not such an idiot that he thinks women shuld be hairless at all times and so is very understanding (yes I am lucky).

I like hair removal for hygiene reasons because modern society doesn't need that much hair to keep the body regulated anymore. Although, removing all hair down below is not good either as it helps stop you getting nasties in there, especially if you are particularly sensitive as a woman. For that reason I leave a strip.

Plus, I'm not a little girl and I think having a completely bare area below is wierd. Having a nicely trimmed and shaved area is much better IMO.

Feminist's who harp on about not shaving are missing the point of feminism as far as I can tell, but I guess it is easier for me to reach that conclusion as the men in my culture groom too and are under the same pressure as women to do it for hygiene reasons more than beauty reasons.

If you are a bloke with hairy armpits in my culture, you get the piss taken out of you for not knowing how to keep up personal hygiene and for stinking up your marital bed for instance.

Culturally, and not religiously, people in my country shave all over-men and women (merely because of the heat and for the dominant religion)

Can't see how this is true for British born and bred people unless their religion dictates it...the climate most certainly does not.

Oakmaiden you don't have to do it if you don't want to.

And to the other posters who are claiming this as a feminist issue; I resent being made to feel ashamed or guilty for my personal choices about what I do with my own body. As if I'm somehow betraying my gender or colluding with EVIL MEN'S IMPOSITION OF BEAUTY IDEALS ON WOMEN.

I don't begrudgingly remove my body hair all the time secretly wishing for a day when women can be free to live in a hirsute utopia. I do it because I like the way it looks on me. If I were begrudging of it, I simply wouldn't do it at all and go au natrel.

The key word is choice. I won't make any apologies for the ones I make when it comes to my body.

madonnawhore, thank you for saying what i was trying to express, but doing so much more eloquently! i totally agree.

The argument is that you only like the way it looks because of the images you have been exposed to.

Not that I'm a hard core fembot. Just saying.

It's a bit like CHOOSING

Ariel or Lenor washing liquid.

They're both owned by Proctor and Gamble...your choice goes into their pocket, despite which one you think you chose

The fembots see it the same.

You may think you're choosing but it's only because men make you think you have the choice.

Well there are many who would judge people who relentlessly and obsessively scrape and trim their body hair off as weird and you as even weirder for even being bothered about it.

But they are too polite and have better things to do than to start a thread on it.

who has said you're betraying your gender?
I spend a lot of time with feminists, both hairy and hairless, and no-one has ever said anything like that about women who shave.

The feminist argument is that unequal pressure on men and women to engage in time-consuming and sometimes painful beauty practices is a feminist issue. Not that women are betraying their gender by shaving!

You make choices within a context. Within that context the choices are your own. But there is a very powerful and convincing feminist analysis that looks at the influence of patriarchy on what that context is.

If people choose to distort that message to 'nasty feminists are telling me off for shaving', that is their affair.

I'm listening to "Everybody's Free To Wear Sunscreen".

I love the line;

"Do not read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel UGLY".

I also think it is genuinely sad when a woman describes her husband or partner as "understanding" when she has to take a break from the said scraping and trimming because her movements are inhibited due to pregnancy.

All hair is wrong. Join the the Society for the Promulgation of Hairlessness and help us find a smoother way forwards.

An ex dbf did trim his man garden very very short for religious reasons. Also shaved/trimmed armpits short ie box hedge rather than privet. His choice and I really liked it.

He works in a sports industry he was also constantly questioned by male colleagues as to his sexuality . Daft and another example of having to conform to sexual stereotypes.

As for me I do what I like depending on the season and my mood! I can say though, that if I was told what to do or judged by anyone I would probably go the opposite way!

Well, I'm pleased with my Brazilian wax.

I feel good.

That's all I care about.

If that makes me a downtrodden victim of a patriarchal society and an overly sexualised "beauty" (who me? - don't think so) industry, then fine. I don't feel like one and that is, surely, all that matters.

At my uni which is notorious for their 'you either agree with us or feck off' feminist society, they held more than one debate on the issue of shaving and though I did not attend (what a bloody waste of time), my friends who argued for the choice to shave were seriously blasted and rumours were started about them being anti feminist and some other stuff along those lines.

Absolutely glad I did not bother to attend, I find many feminists go down this road nowadays.

Much prefer an Angela Carter-esque view of feminism and women generally.

I do it because I prefer it, it feels better, cleaner. It has nothing to do with looks as I don't walk about waving my ninny in peoples faces and I normally wear jeans/trousers and sleeves for work. You can make a strong case for almost anything if its what you believe but it still doesn't make it true.

Ariesgirl, during pregnancy for me certain things did go by the wayside and if DH had made any sarky comments he might well have woken up in A&E.

"The feminist argument is that unequal pressure on men and women to engage in time-consuming and sometimes painful beauty practices is a feminist issue. Not that women are betraying their gender by shaving!"

Men used to have to conform to standards of grooming much more strictly than they do now. It wasn't so long ago that no man could reasonably have long hair, or even leave the house without wearing a suit and tie. Now, both genders are much more free to express themselves through their individual presentation.

I am not attempting to play the world's smallest violin for men over here but I am simply saying that cultural and societal standards of dress and presentation have been imposed on both genders since forever.

Because I can't be arsed to be faffing around with razors, half of which are blunt on the side of the bath; because I hate the idea of waxing, it makes me feel sick; because my fiance isn't that bothered really; because there are much more interesting things to do than spend half an hour trying not to razor my clit whilst trying to prune into a 'landing strip'.

So unless I find myself twiddling my thumbs in the bath (which happens occasionally) they don't get 'done' much.

Although I did do some pruning for my first midwife appointment believing that she would do an internal exam - when she didn't, I was inwardly screaming " BUT I've just SHAVED MY FUCKING FANNY FOR YOU! "