to be sick to death of having to put up with other people's dogs

[WriterofDreams]

I am not a dog person. I think they're nice but I don't want to pet a dog or be anywhere near them really. This partly comes from being attacked by a dog as a young child.

This was never a problem when I lived in Ireland, where a dog is a subservient pet that is to be kept in line. In busy areas dogs are generally kept on a lead at all times and IME if a loose dog ever came up to me the owner always apologised and pulled the dog away. In the park where I used to go walking any dog that wasn't on a lead was taken away by the pound, whether the owner was close by or not. This was to protect the wildlife in the area.

Since moving to England I have come to hate dogs, not really through any fault of their own. There is a common near me where I often go walking with DS, who thankfully is still in a pram so I don't have to worry about him. On every single occasion, often more than once, a large dog has come up to me, often running. On a couple of occasions a dog has jumped up on me, scaring the absolute shit out of me. On practically every occasion the owner has either not been anywhere in the vicinity (as the dog has run far ahead of them) or has smiled indulgently and uttered the immortal phrase "he is very friendly!" before feebly calling the dog and offering no apology for the fact that dog invaded my space and scared me. On a few occasions I have been scared witless by dogs viciously fighting on the path.

AIBU to think the owners have a responsibility to keep their dogs close to them and not allow them to harrass other people?

I can see it from both sides.

I used to not be a "dog person" - largely I think because my sister's dogs were so badly behaved and knocked me off my feet when I was 6 months pregnant and she said "they're only playing". Which they were - but they were always very uncontrolled.

Then I got a dog of my own and got a whole new perspective. I know that my dog will not attack of his own volition and is too small to do any damage. If the worst came to the worst and he went mental for some reason he could be kicked off quite easily.

However, I have noticed on walks that some people keep their dogs on the lead at all times and edge their dogs away from me and my dog. I assume that these dogs need to be on a lead and keep away.

I also remember with a new baby being paranoid (only the 1st DC!) about cleanliness and no one can say that dogs don't love to eat cat shit etc. I would seriously have had a problem with a dog licking my baby.

I think with a young baby I might ask someone to put a big dog out in the garden or ask them to visit me at my house without their dog.

"Alltheyoungdoods better not let your dog off the lead then, if you can't control it!"

Riiight. And the next time I meet horses on a country lane, I shall not slow down, I may even give a cheery blast of my horn. Because if your horses are not traffic proof, they shouldn't be on the road, right?

Oh, no, because you might be in the process of training them....

I'm with Valhalla and Emptyshell 100%.

YANBU at all in my opinion.

Dogs are adored in this country and given more license to behave badly than people. Owners are almost to a man, irrational about their dogs, I'm so so so so bored with the excuses about dogs who jump up on children and adults, and licking faces etc and the owners go all gooey faced as if the fact that they love the dog means that the untrained ill disciplined animal's behaviour is acceptable.

It isn't.

Train your dog or leave it at home. Or get a farm to let it run around on behaving badly.

About 5% of dogs I see are properly trained. Go figure.

The Brits are emotionally inadequate and use pets to channel infantile emotions in my opinion. GROW UP all of you!

I know i'll get it from all you perfect owners but I'm sick of all of you and your poor out of control mutts.

YANBU to think owners should be responsible for their dogs.

I like dogs but I do not like them jumping on me/DD/buggy with small DS in it. There is a cafe in the common we go to a few times a week and, without fail, there will be an army of dogs there, all off their leads, slobbering about all over the place. Twice, we have had bacon sandwiches snaffled from our table and I always have to stand guard by the buggy to stop an excited dog leaping on DS or stop DD from picking up their slobbery balls/toys.

It's not pleasant for us, but the owners (who are all talking to each other in a huddle somewhere and ignoring their dogs) don't seem to either notice or care.

I find this behaviour very strange and is not how I see friends and family who are dog owners behaving with their pets. Perhaps it's just this particular bunch. If your lot are anything like these then YANBU!

As a dog owner i don't understand owners that do not train their dogs and ignore them on walks. I have always had GS's and part of their joy is their itelligence, their trainability and their interaction with you.

If you don't have good recall, you don't let them off the lead around young children. There are plenty of places or out at unpopular times, that you can take a dog, whilst you train them.

It shouldn't be a case of dog owners v non-owners. I hate having to avoid dog dirt on my walks, i have to worm my dog to be on the safe side more often because the same owners that don't clean up probably aren't worming them.

The point about the rules in germany is a good one because i know that some of the healthiest and most intelligent GS's come from german bloodlines probably because of this rule, only commited people have them.

I was very ill at one time and on warfarin and i was very nervous around other people's dogs, so i know how vunerable some people feel.

I think what you said is a bit harsh queenceleste. I don't agree that Brits are emotionally inadequate. That's far too general a statement.

I do think however that pets are mollycoddled in this country. Before I get "Oh Ireland's a hotbed of cruelty and everyone there treats their pets badly" I am not advocating cruelty. However, I do find it odd that pet owners often don't treat their pets as animals - for example I was surprised to see a thread in the litter tray section saying it was cruel to leave cats outside at night. Cats are nocturnal animals who in the wild are quite capable of looking after themselves and stay out all night by choice. If you want to keep a cat in all the time, fair enough, but it's normal and not cruel to let them out at night. In fact, our cats expect to be let out at night and wail if we go to bed without doing so.

Perhaps it's just the fact that I come from a different culture but I do find it genuinely odd when people say "it's the dog's house as much as mine." Well, no, actually, you own the dog and the dog didn't choose to live with you. They don't pay for the house, so it doesn't belong to them. Putting your pets before people is again something I find a little odd, not that I think it's wrong or anything, I'm just not used to it.

YANBU, if my dogs jump up on someone I would be extremely apologetic about it. Not everyone particularly likes dogs and its v. annoying to be jumped up on with mucky paws! Its usually not allowed to have dogs off lead in a park setting.

Several of my friends have asked me to put my dogs in the back garden when they come to visit and I have no problem with that at all.

BTW the law in Ireland is currently being reviewed to modernise outdated laws wrt animal welfare, it was discussed on tv this morning

Alltheyoungdoods Riiight. And the next time I meet horses on a country lane, I shall not slow down, I may even give a cheery blast of my horn. Because if your horses are not traffic proof, they shouldn't be on the road, right?

Both of my horses are extremely traffic proof indeed and don't react to horn tooting. However, like me, they are not vehicle proof. Therefore if you cause an accident (which sounds quite likely in view of your attitude as displayed on here), not only will you be reported to the police, you or your insurance company will be paying me vast amounts of compensation for any losses you incur me.

Lets also hope you don't hit any other vehicles in your threat to drive carelessly on the roads. Seriously, are you a total idiot?

I do pity the animals you have. No wonder you have no control over them. Animals can sense things you know.

The last time a dog accompanied me on a run was in France. Yes, France, on a narrow track heavily used by families with children and lots of dog walkers. All the dogs were on leads except from this one, and I was damned if I was running back with it so the inept owners could get it back on the lead. It followed me to my turnaround point, having a great time, and then I took it back. The owners were extremely embarrassed, apologetic and slightly frantic. They were of course British. I then had to wait for their inept attempts to get a lead on the dog. After about 10 minutes of ineffectual shouting, screaming and chasing after their dog (which utterly confused the poor thing even more) I shouted "Candy! Here". The dog came over to me and stood while I put on the lead. I advised them to keep the dog on the lead until it was trained.

If someone's dogs bites me when out of control and off the lead, I will complain to the police Valhalla and sue them for personal injuries. There is of course strict liability in such cases by statute. If dogs are likely to bite, why not keep them on the lead? Or muzzle them? Or train them?

Why bother having dogs if you can't be bothered to become more competent and train them when you have them out in public? Surely this is part of the enjoyment and challenge of having a dog?

I train my dogs. I train them to respond to people's commands, so if you called them to follow you on your run they would, because they have been trained to. I would also follow you. I'm not as friendly as my dogs.

Oh and the reason 'Candy' responded to you calling her and not her owners is that you are unkown, you might be fun, you might have food, you'd just played a great game with. It's not because you're the fucking Dog Whisperer, you numpty.

She knew her owners wanted to put the lead on her. She didn't know what you wanted. Pack theory was disproved years ago, dogs look for fun and food not a pack leader.

Dooin, I'd be right behind her too, something which I forgot to add earlier. And, like you, I'm not as friendly as my dogs either.

Well said re your following post too.... and whilst we're talking of numptyism I'd like to point out to nijinsky that a person who ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED a dog to chase them out of sheer malice might just be viewed as causing mitigating circumstances.

It's not because you're the fucking Dog Whisperer, you numpty.

No of course I bloody wouldn't. It was an example of how I could make an assumption about someone else's training abilities and animal's behaviour, and do something deliberately negative, detrimental to their control to their animal, and potentially dangerous to make a point. Which is exactly what you have repeatedly said you do.

The difference is that I'm talking hypothetically because I'm not enough of an utter prat to actually DO that.

As for "I do pity the animals you have. No wonder you have no control over them. Animals can sense things you know." Well, I think that rather shows more about you than me.

love the 'dog whisperer' quote - got to be a classic !

Another thing... I'd love you to sue ME for personal injuries, nijinsky. Not that I wish my or any dog to bite you nor that I wish some fool to lure a dog from his owner but so that I could laugh at you.

So sue me. How much do you think you'll get?

A decent lawyer will never promote that a client serves a writ if, even if the case is won, the defendant hasn't the funds to pay either the sum demanded in compensation or his own costs.

MN classics - "It's not because you're the fucking Dog Whisperer, you numpty."

God, I wish I'd thought of that one! :o

Take a bow, Dooin!

This is a non debate.

Of course the owners are to blame.
Of course they are irrational about their dogs and most are incapable of even the most simple training.
They don't train their dogs because they are 'pets' or alternative babies of some kind.

The psychology of most dog owners I see is that of an over emotional attachment to the dog and the inability to see it as a creature who needs to be trained and preferably not to be all over the family's beds and under the table and generally indulged.
I genuinely think our indulgence of dogs is the sign of something lacking in our emotional lives we should be channelling more healthily.
Fine, have a dog, love it but it should not impinge on non dog owners, and if it doesn't fit in a handbag it should be trained to a very high level.
There is never any excuse for a dog jumping up at all, and if you think there is an excuse you are ignorant of how possible it is to train a dog to behave excellently.
I know, because my parents had a fantastically perfectly behaved german shepherd. She was trained very young, very well and behaved wonderfully.
It was a long and boring and dedicated task of training and took a huge amount of persistence on their part.
Most dog owners don't even seem to know that it's possible to do this!

Doggie is about having an ickle wickle baby to love!
Nonsense imo.

I think you're the dog whisperer Val.

. I thought I was very polite and restrained.

"I know, because my parents had a fantastically perfectly behaved german shepherd"

Thank you for sharing your exceptional experience with and knowledge of dogs with us, queen. I'm sure that the rescuers, those who have owned dogs for all their adult lives (ah, those two types will be me), and the experienced breeders, vets and trainers amongst us - and ALL these have posted on this thread - are incredibly grateful to you for your words of wisdom, based on such extensive experience.

Oh and btw, I have two German Shepherds, queen. And a Labrador. They are fantastically well trained.

They also sleep on my bed.

One does not make the other impossible.

Lady, I hope not... I'd zap that little shite Milan with one of his own friggin' electric shock collars....

.... placed around his bollocks!

Yes I don't like him.

I can just see you literally whispering to dogs to behave. And untying the ones that have been outside shops for ages and taking them home to a big house where the dogs have bedrooms and toys, and people who are afraid of dogs have no rights.

That's how I see you.

I'd be like that, only I'm forever reproducing and kids just get in the way.

PPS - queen, if it took your parents a huge amount of persistance to train a young Shep, for god's sake, it was either an unusually thick Shep or your parents were doing it wrong.