to be sick to death of having to put up with other people's dogs

[WriterofDreams]

I am not a dog person. I think they're nice but I don't want to pet a dog or be anywhere near them really. This partly comes from being attacked by a dog as a young child.

This was never a problem when I lived in Ireland, where a dog is a subservient pet that is to be kept in line. In busy areas dogs are generally kept on a lead at all times and IME if a loose dog ever came up to me the owner always apologised and pulled the dog away. In the park where I used to go walking any dog that wasn't on a lead was taken away by the pound, whether the owner was close by or not. This was to protect the wildlife in the area.

Since moving to England I have come to hate dogs, not really through any fault of their own. There is a common near me where I often go walking with DS, who thankfully is still in a pram so I don't have to worry about him. On every single occasion, often more than once, a large dog has come up to me, often running. On a couple of occasions a dog has jumped up on me, scaring the absolute shit out of me. On practically every occasion the owner has either not been anywhere in the vicinity (as the dog has run far ahead of them) or has smiled indulgently and uttered the immortal phrase "he is very friendly!" before feebly calling the dog and offering no apology for the fact that dog invaded my space and scared me. On a few occasions I have been scared witless by dogs viciously fighting on the path.

AIBU to think the owners have a responsibility to keep their dogs close to them and not allow them to harrass other people?

Writer I agree with you, NO dog should run up to anyone, the owner of said dog should either have it on a lead or have it well enough trained that it comes back on command before getting near the other person. However no one is going to say, my dog is boisterous and I let it run about willy nilly and jump all over people,the only responses you're going to get are people who have unfortunately had similar experiences to yourself, are responsible dog owners(or claim to be) or think everyone should 'know' their dog is 'safe' so unfortunately the thread is futile because the people who's attitudes you want to change (the ones who can't be bothered training their dogs, or the ones who think it's acceptable for dogs to jump up at strangers) don't think they're doing anything wrong or need to change.

I think this whole dog,people,park thing is just the way it is unless they bring in some law about dogs on leads or compulsory dog training classes which is never going to happen and wouldn't be enforceable. You have a right to walk in a park and not get jumped on, the dog has the right to walk in the park and not get run up to, and the owner has the right to train or not train the dog properly. I can't see it changing ever, and this thread and all others like it will just go round in circles.

YANBU x 1000. I can relate to your whole post completely.

Oddly enough the one dog and owner I actually like are a huge, scary-looking bull of a dog and its lovely, friendly owner. The animal is bloody magnificient, and I like them because he (the owner) is so mindful of other people and keeps the dog well out of the way of other people at all times. None of this "oh but he's a softie", and "oh but he doesn't bite" and BS like that.

I know rules about leads must be very frustrating if you are a good dog owner and your dog is very well behaved but unfortunately there are so many poor dog owners out there that I do think in a lot of places the "dogs on leads" rule is necessary. When it comes down to it, dogs do attack and sometimes kill people and if people can't be trusted to train a dog properly and keep it away from people then the only other choice is to have a "leads only" rule. If dogs could be reasoned with then it would another matter, but they can't.

I have to agree with you samc, unfortunately. The thing is I doubt there are very many people out there who genuinely hate dogs and think no one should own them. I think dog owners do themselves no favours by not taking other people's feelings into account and just expect people to put up with their dogs. Like I said in Ireland I had no problem because for the most part people were very considerate with their dogs and didn't let them jump up on people. If the same were true here then I'd have no problem.

YANBU about dogs 'jumping up' at you in public. I have a dog who I like to allow off lead for a run but if she looks like she's heading towards someone (she usually doesn't, prefers bushes/trees etc) then I will call her back.

Her recall is very good, if it wasn't she wouldn't be off the lead.

Its irresponsible dog owners that cause problem really, who allow their dogs to 'bother' people IMO

Here in Germany any dog over a certain size has to have a "driving licence" to prove it is safe to be kept as a pet, and staffy/pit bull breeds are banned completely. There is also a dog tax, which would maybe put people off having more dogs than they could cope with or getting a dog they weren't really committed to.

Having the licence means that I am a lot more trusting of dogs that I encounter when off the lead, especially the traditionally offputting breeds.

There are also rules as to when and where your dog can be off the lead.

I think its a good compromise, and I say that as the devoted owner of an overenergetic spaniel

As a horse owner, I must admit I don't really "get" a lot of dog owners. A big part of the pleasure in owning the horse is in being skillful in dealing with it and improving your skills and your own and your horse's training. Most horse owners spend their time having continual lessons on how to do this better, reading books and articles about it and comparing different training methods. Quite a lot even test their skills in competition. I'd be so embarrassed if I allowed my horses to rove around at will scaring people and getting in their way.

Dogs are much smaller than horses so I don't understand how they can't be trained. I often wonder what would happen if I kept my horses in my unsuitably small garden, rather than paying for suitable facilities at a livery yard in the countryside, and let them out in the local park to roam. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't come to any harm as they have the common sense just to graze, although they would probably go up to people and hint for treats.

Although I have to say I have no problems with dogs trying to bit my horses. Both of them love dogs but dogs are inexplicably scared of them. Especially my 17.2 big boy, he gets so hurt when dogs run away from him. Not all horses are like this though so if you let your dog run loose and sniff a horse's heels, don't blame the horserider if the horse kicks your dog in self defence. Again, just common sense and surely one of the pleasures of finding out that sort of stuff in being a dog owner.

I dont think yabu , im a dog owner and it pisses me off too . My own dog doesnt jump , leap , or try to shag me , and i really shouldnt have to put up with it off other peoples dogs . I hate taking my dog out because of this , and i activeley avoid visiting freinds who have badly behaved untrained dogs .

TheFlyingOnion- How incredibly organized

WriterofDreams "but I was asking what the solution is, I'm discussing the problem with you."

Um....I didn't get that at all from your OP; it didn't sound to me like you were asking what the solution is, it sounded to me like you just wanted to have an anti-dog rant, and have people agree with you.

I agree with what lots of other people have pointed out; anyone who holds up Ireland as a paragon of dog ownership is either ignorant of the facts, or has little interest in the welfare of dogs. I assumed you were the former, but then you stated that you know Ireland has problems with dog welfare. I totally fail to see why you would then hold this up as a preferable situation here.

I think YANBU to be annoyed at dogs jumping up at you; it is completely unacceptable. A dog merely approaching you, however, is another matter, imo. If you are scared of dogs, then I appreciate that a dog running near you or approaching you (without touching you) many be unpleasant for you, but I think that that is something you need to master yourself, and well before your fear starts to rub off on your DS. Maybe some CBT if it bothers you so much? The fact is that we share our environment with dogs, and whilst owners have a moral and legal obligation to keep their dogs under control, there are people who can't or won't.

Most dogs that approach you mean you no harm, and are just curious or friendly. If you ignore them, they'll go away! Your comments
"On every single occasion, often more than once, a large dog has come up to me, often running."
"On a few occasions I have been scared witless by dogs viciously fighting on the path."
make me think that your fear is leading you to misinterpret the situation, seeing threat when there is none. A dog 'coming up to you running' may well mean that he's just going to run right on past you - you are completely incidental to him. My small spaniel goes hurtling along on the scent trail of whatever, and couldn't care less about the people she passes. If you are scared of dogs, dogs playing with each other look like they're fighting.

If your fear is curtailing your enjoyment of the park, either do something about your fear, or find another park. Yes dog owners should have their dogs under control at all times, but if you consider them running past you and playing on the path to be out of control, then I it's you who is the problem.

TheFlyingOnion God the Germans are efficient! Sounds very good to me - I wish there was something we could do about irresponsible dog ownership here, and that sounds along the right track.

I didn't say I have a problem with dogs running past me, in fact I said in another post that if a dog ran past me and splashed me I wouldn't really mind. It's dogs approaching me and sniffing me or following me that I don't like.

Yes there are some Irish people who treat dogs badly. That is tangential to this discussion IMO. I'm talking about people who take their dogs out walking, not those who use them as breeding machines or keep them in poor conditions without exercise. Yes some Irish people treat dogs badly, a huge proportion treat them very well however. Some British people also treat dogs appallingly.

There is no way I'm going to fork out for CBT to suit poor dog owners!! What a strange suggestion!

I'm not suggesting that the CBT would be for the benefit of the dog owners - I wouldn't imagine that they give a toss about the fear that is ruining your enjoyment of the park, tbh.

Since it is unlikely that you are going to be able to stop dogs approaching you in a public space, I was suggesting that if it is such a huge problem as it appears to be for you, you might want to take some responsibility for your irrational fear, and do something about it. Or you can just have a good old moan about it on MN, and feel better about your fear.

As I said before in the thread, I don't have an irrational fear, I have a justified fear given that a previously well behaved dog attacked me without provocation. I am able to pet dogs if the owner is around and I don't mind them if they're not bothering me. It's not ruining my life, it just annoys me.

"I have now decided to deal with this in my own way to teach the owners a lesson. When out running, if approached by a dog, I now encourage the dog to come with me on my run. Often the dog will do so. I bring them back after about 10 minutes. Now if a person's dog will follow a total stranger, it is because it views me as a more confident, authoritative and therefore safer leader than its owner...I'm no dog expert btw. But I'm not half as ineffectual as many dog owners out there."

Really Nijinksky?

Because, yes, my dog would follow you. He would think he was doing the right thing by following your instructions, and it would undo the past 10 months of training that I have put in. That does not mean I am not a 'confident, authoritative' person (incidentally if you mean 'leader' as in leader of the pack you should know that pack theory has been largely discredited these days... so yes, some of us dog owners do spend time reading and going to instruction on how to improve our dog training!), it means that among my young dog's many good points, he has one serious failing. So we use leads and recall training to prevent him suddenly greeting people. But if you caught him/us by surprise and decided to encourage him away to prove a point, he would follow you.

I find it staggering that someone who trains animals to a high level would try and undo someone else's work without knowing the background. What if you had a promising young horse who was excellent in lots of areas but terrified of travelling? And you'd spent ages working on it and could now put her in a field next to busy traffic. And I decided to prove a point that you couldn't be a very good trainer if you couldn't get your horse 'over' this problem, and decided to rev my engine loudly at the horse whenever I got the chance?

The people on this thread who put their dog's needs higher than another human being's need their blinking heads reading.
And I am a huge animal lover.

This post struck a chord with me as I'm feeling grumpy about dogs lately too. It's not the running us so much as the poo. Why don't all owners clear it up? I came home on Saturday to find a huge dog poo in my front garden! Lovely. And walks with my kids are spent dodging poo. It's disgusting.

YANBU. I feel the same. I don't want disgusting dogs slobbering all over my DCs or jumping up, I don't want them running at them or scaring them. I don't want them treading in huge piles of dog poo when we go to the local park/ country park.

I wouldn't let my kids run and jump all over other people who why the fuck do people feel it's ok for their dogs to do just that?? (Oh, he's only playing, he's very friendly, he loves children etc ) I know most dogs do just want to 'play' but it's all about consideration and behaving in a way you would want people to behave towards you.

motherchuffer and Iloveyou too there are rules for everything here!!

And hefty fines if they are not obeyed....

Alltheyoungdoods better not let your dog off the lead then, if you can't control it!

Yep, whenever a dog chases me when I'm running and the owner fails to call it off, I now encourage the dog to come with me.

And yes dickydavies I am totally with you on the people who put the "rights" of dogs before the rights of people. Sociopaths.

No responsible dog owner on these board would disagree that dogs should be under control in public places, and that no one should have to put up with dogs jumping up. Of course not! But these threads degenerate into bunfights because those who don't like dogs seem to hold all dog owners responsible for the behaviour of all dogs, trained or otherwise. Not fair.

One day, nijinsky you may get bitten as a result of encouraging strange dogs away from their owners and to chase you... yes, chase, because, as has been explained above, that's how the dog will see it because you are actively ENCOURAGING that "come run and follow me because I am iciting you to and you are trained to do as you are told" response.

I am not saying you may be ATTACKED, that's a different matter, I am saying that if you encourage, say, a herding breed such as a Collie, GSD or Corgi to run after you, you run the risk of being rounded up and/or nipped.

Who will you blame then?

I love dogs but completely agree with you OP.

Oh and as a previous dog owner who will hopefully be able to have another in a couple of years, please know that some owners are conscientious enough to not allow our dogs to encroach on other people's day to day lives.