Saw this headline, thought "It's GOT to be a Mumsnetter!"

[bupcakesandcunting]

Yeah, yeah, it's a Daily Mail article but still [[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389593/Are-PC-parents-world-The-couple-raising-genderless-baby--protect-right-choice.html BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

They're coco loco, right? Surely no-one can say "fuck off, there's a dear" to THIS one?!

Did you read my post properly? Having XY chromosomes does not mean you will have testicles and a penis. Having XX chromosomes does not mean you will have ovaries and a vagina.

But Dittany, what about women who want to live as men? Are we going to call them misandrists?

There are congenital abnormalities that mean that gender development is hampered, thus we have conditions such as hermaphroditism and Klinefelter syndrome, to name but two. Clinicians are studying in utero gender development to try and establish a link between this and gender dysorphia as most doctors don't believe that it is merely a psychiatric condition any longer.

Toby:

No that is an incorrect assumption about religious belief.

Eskimos and Amazonian tribes (2 randomly selected cultures) are two in particular who are not exposed to the same social conditioning that we are. I am interested to know if they are confused about their genders and sex; because I believe it's down to social conditioning and not a medical condition, is all.

If you say so.

Toby, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, if you have a case study of said types of cultures being "gender confused"?

Oh, Dittany. I do agree with lots of what you say but misandrist IS a word and there ARE men-haters in the world. There are.

LOTM, there is a reluctance in this country for people with GD to seek treatment because of the stigma attached, and we are a relatively liberal country. I can't imagine that there is much hard evidence of gender-bending Amazonian tribespeople but don't kid yourself into thinking that it doesn't exist elsewhere. Like many islamic countries would have us believe that hmosexuality just doesn't occur within their culture, sorry but it does. It's just that there are less Muslims willing to "come out."

So why is 'misandrist' not ok, but 'misogynist' is ok?

This is the original article from the Toronto Star, rather than the Daily Mail's abridged version.

I have to say, I disagree with even more aspects of it all, now.

Because men NEVER suffer any hardship in this world, apparently, Toby.

I think it might that the pressures on women are more so than that on men...rather than them not suffering...

Dittany, I know that many people on here have a huge amount of respect for what you say. Personally, I think that saying things like man-hating hardly exists makes you look incredibly ill-informed and evangelical.

Yes, women are oppressed and have violence inflicted upon them. The fact that this sometimes also happens to men does not make that fact any better or worse. You can't just deny that it happens at all to suit your feminist ideals.

Isn't that what feminists do? Attack them for being men?

Isn't that what feminists do? Attack them for being men?

Exactly. It's just hidden under the guise of 'holding men accountable for their behaviour'.

Well, JLC is besides the point, though she was discussed in one of genetics classes. Biologically, my point stands. Sex, chromosomes, genitalia, gender - none of them are 100% reliable as indicators of anything. And I mean purely from a biological point of view. Nature is very, very complicated.

And I think some posters on the Feminism board dispute your claim that men are not ever hated. I'd agree that they aren't oppressed. But definitely hated by many women.

"Isn't that what feminists do? Attack them for being men?"

No, no, no and 1000x no. Feminists seek equality for women. That is all. How would attacking men achieve this?

Dittany, I agree that I've never heard of a man being oppressed or attacked for merely being male.

However, as everyone knows someone, who has a friend, who knows someone that hates men, the absence of any qualifier on the subject may cause people to dismiss your posts. Then again, maybe if you did have such a qualifier, they would seize upon another excuse to ignore your points.