Saw this headline, thought "It's GOT to be a Mumsnetter!"

[bupcakesandcunting]

Yeah, yeah, it's a Daily Mail article but still [[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389593/Are-PC-parents-world-The-couple-raising-genderless-baby--protect-right-choice.html BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

They're coco loco, right? Surely no-one can say "fuck off, there's a dear" to THIS one?!

fucking twats

they sound familiar

Flyingspaghettimonster I'm not saying it's ALL nurture. I'm saying a very very large part of it is. Your child may have grown up in a gun free house, but he was still exposed to a masculine oriented world. Even in children's tv etc, those roles are perpetuated- girls talk, are kind, empathic and passive. Boys are active, often monosyllabic, aggressive and focused on physical activity.

Your child has grown up in a world where they are expected to conform, even if that is not said verbally, it is said by everything round them. Rather than assume that your son wants a gun because he is a boy, and your daughter doesn't because she is a girl, maybe assume your son is naturally aggressive and your daughter isn't. They aren't GENDER traits, they're personal traits of that child.

Or you could go that one dangerous step forward and ask yourself if your children are rewarded and supported for assuming certain gender roles within your house

So those who think this is a good idea - are you doing this with your children?

No, KFP, but I wish I'd thought of doing it.

kungfu - no, but I wish I were brave enough. This has made me think I need to encourage my DDs more to be less 'girly'.

I'm with tambern, Toby and Annie.
KFP - no, I wouldn't do this with my own dc, the issue simply isn't important enough to me, but I do get where these people are coming from.

I can understand why they're doing this, although I'm unwilling to go that far myself.

People really do interpret behaviour differently, according to whether a boy or a girl is doing it.

Here's a little story for you.

Once upon a time, when I was nine, I was convinced I wanted to be a professional footballer. Just like all my same-aged male neighbours. So, whenever I was allowed out to play in the street, I played football. If no-one else was there, I would practise dribbling through cones, and that kind of stuff. Just as any of the boys did, if one was on his own (I know this, because a) we discussed it. b) I saw them from my bedroom window).

Snobby mother of nice, ladylike girls complained about me "wandering the streets, with nothing to do". Funnily enough, this verdict was not handed down on Callum, eh?

This got back to my mother, and suddenly I wasn't allowed out to practise dribbling any more. (Who then started complaining that I was putting on weight, but that's another story. As is the guilty, embarrassed feeling I have if I speed up past a walk, and how I still can't do any kind of active sport/hobby if I think people might see me doing it.)

I agree that it should be the least important thing about someone. But I would worry that the child would find it difficult to socialise because children are so gender-identified by the time they get to 3/4.

I don't try and press anything onto DS because he's a boy and can't bear people making all sorts of assumptions about a child because of their gender. I'm just not entirely sure this is the best way to try and raise a child in a gender-neutral way although Tambern's points are very good

"I agree that it should be the least important thing"

Sadly by inviting media interviews I would say it's making gender a fairly important part of the child's life anyway. Seems like a catch 22 IYSWIM?

Its all moot. You do know those kids are going to rebel and become corporate accountants don't you?

But surely the childs gender will come out as soon as they can talk - When they refer to themselves as a big boy/girl whatever.

I just don't see the benefit. I dont quite believe the sterotype argument. I have a DD and everyone knew she was a girl when born, but everyone always took their lead from her. She likes rough and tumble play. Yes she likes those god awful tacky plastic princess shoes but she also loves buzz lightyear and has a bucket full of toy cars and lorries etc.

Even taking the baby out in unisex clothes - What do they say to strangers who ask if its a boy or girl? "Oh sorry its a secret because blah blah blah" and then get blank stares in return. And if people don't ask they'll just assume probably depending on what they look like that day. And surely for the child to be truely genderless then they would have to make sure to never refer to them as a he/she/him/her/brother/sister so even the child doesn't know what they are...

Its all just a bit weird!

I think its a boy though.

Agree with Toby and Tambern. Already given my arguments why I admire these parents for their non-conformist parenting on the other thread in Chat - think Toby posted a link for this at the beginning.

I don't like the idea of using a child to experiment with, whether that experiment is on the child or on society.

These people are mad, lock them away mad!!!!!!

On a practical note, how do they refer to the child, he or she? I hope not "it"!

I might be the only one but I don't see whats wrong with celebrating gender? Why do we have to try and "allow" people to test how masculine or femenine they are? surely its also the role of parents to help raise their children to be happy and part of that is to be a good part of society. If parents keep trying not to guide their children I think a lot of them end up disapointed lonely adults, at some point however "wrong" it might be we only have a short life and to spend it fighting and challenging is going to be tough on a child. Already it was saying that one child didn't like it when he got called a girl. They shouldn't be taught that it is always the others fault for being judgemental.they aren't mature enough to understand the adults reasoning.

i just think you can raise your child to be what they want without hiding their gender from even their grandparents ffs!

and ultimately children are just INDIVIDUALS, regardless of their sex.

i have four boys one HATES football and sport with a passion, one LOVES it, literally lives and breathes sport, football, korfball, anything he also happens to play the piano and double bass.

then i have a son who loves pink and purple and all things sparkly and fairies! he regularly wears a pink silk party dress to school on non uniform day, or a fairy costume, he also has a purple fairy scooter he rides to school most days.

two of my boys have short hair, their choice, two have long hair, tho the little one at three is more because i think its cute and he wont sit still to have it cut.

i also have a 5mth old dd, who wears lots of her brothers old clothes, she also has lots of 'girls' clothes, not pink but pretty dresses, am sucker for paisley prints and autumnal colours, so she wears lots of those.

all of my children are individual REGARDLESS of their sex, we have never said they cant/can/must/musnt do something because of their sex, its a moot point tbh, they are who they are.

i think the family are making MORE of an issue of the childs sex by not letting people, especially family, know the sex.

yes gender can be an issue in our lives, but with regards to children its when you allow it to be, you can moniter the influences in their lives and our boys dont think of things as 'girly' ds3 was told at school his scooter was a 'girls' scooter, he turned round and said 'no its a fairy scooter and i LOVE fairies' he is happy and confident in what he likes and dislikes and that is fine by me.

anyhow not sure the point of this ramble, but my own four boys have shown me how inheritently different children are regardless of gender, imo when young it doesnt make too much difference, people keep asking me what its like having a girl after four boys, umm no different really, other than the fact that i have had some fun buying clohtes, as i wouldhave done with a boy after four girls iykwim?

and my only other thought is wtf have they called their eldest child 'Jazz' what kind of name is that?!!

Mad as hatters!
It also won't work-nature will out. I really don't think nurture is too important.

I think that the worst thing is using a DC as an experiment.

Weirdos. Poor kids.

They should get a dog and play their little games with that instead.