Saw this headline, thought "It's GOT to be a Mumsnetter!"

[bupcakesandcunting]

Yeah, yeah, it's a Daily Mail article but still [[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389593/Are-PC-parents-world-The-couple-raising-genderless-baby--protect-right-choice.html BWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA!"

They're coco loco, right? Surely no-one can say "fuck off, there's a dear" to THIS one?!

AL, making out that transgender is a neurological disorder is extremely offensive in the same way that making out homosexuality is a neurological disorder would be. Not wanting to fit a certain gender role is not a pathology.

I'm just saying it all boils down to biology 'gone wrong'. Same with homosexuality. Though I prefer to say biology 'gone different'.

And surely calling transgender a neurological disorder is way less offensive than calling it a delusion!?!!

Treatment for schizophrenic delusions does not include pandering to those delusions so why are you advocating that in the case of trans?

Delusions are a symptom of schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is treated with drugs. Nowhere did I say the delusions of schizophrenics should be 'pandered to'. Likewise nowhere did I say that being trans is a delusion.

But it isn't an either/or situation. You don't have to call it either a disorder or a delusion.

There are a wide range of reasons why somebody might end up as gay or bisexual. There are a wider range of reasons why somebody might end up as transgender. For some people it might be genetic, for others it might be an adaptive choice made because of their environment, for others it might be a social choice.

But to make out that somebody's gender role or sexuality is merely a matter of biology is something that can never be demonstrated.

To derail slightly, treatment for schizophrenia has changed, and many medical professionals do now advise schizophrenics who hear voices to listen to those voices and incorporate those aspects of their personality into their personality. So it is no longer the case that they are always told to ignore their delusions.

I'm sick of repeating myself.

If someone requests of me that I address them as 'she', then that is what I do. It's as simple as that. It's none of my business what they have between their legs. And it isn't my place to call their choice into question.

It's like naming my child Jane, and then my mother saying "actually, I don't like that name, so I'm going to call her Deborah, instead".

It's just rude, pathetic and doesn't make any sense.

Dittany, I understand the points you're making, and having been on threads with you before, you might be aware that I agree with you on some of the points you are making and not on others.

But Annie is talking about gender; her statement was very clearly about transgender people. Most transgender people do not want to live as a member of the opposite sex, and even those that do mostly do not want to have either hormone treatments or surgery.

So her comments are not about people who want to change their biological sex, but about people who do not rigidly adhere to social gender roles.

Oh FFS, don't start accusing me of bigotry. I mean purely from a biological viewpoint and you know it. Biology is rarely perfect, if it were we'd all be tall, muscular, fertile and good-looking! Most of us have something biologically 'wrong' with us. It's what makes us human and interesting.

And I added a disclaimer that I was extrapolating, not stating proven fact, so why ask me to demonstrate?

And it's not as if he/she isn't having an identity "forced upon" him or her: what about the identity as the child whose parents won't tell anyone his/her gender?! This kid's already famous. Does anyone else think that this will focus far more attention on Storm's gender, not less?

Sorry, but that demonstrates a lack of knowledge about human evolution. It is maladaptive to be tall and muscular in certain environments. The reason people in different geographical regions vary in height is because in the past different body types were more likely to survive and reproduce in different environments.

It is not always adaptive to be entirely heterosexual.

It is not always adaptive to conform to a rigid gender role.

[gives up]

It's in your chromosomes what sex you are, some people are born without or ambiguous genitalia, usually Drs test the chrimosomes

I was frikkin' generalising Mille!

dittany, I will concede that my phasing was not entirely correct. I, personally, based only on my own extrapolation of how biology works, and not as an expert in neurology in any way, am of the opinion that gender dysmorphism probably has a root in biology, possibly neurological chemistry.

How's that?

But it is an incorrect generalisation. It is simply untrue. It is adaptive to be tall in certain regions of Africa, but it is not adaptive if you live in, for example, Japan or the Arctic.

So, if GD is biological, are you claiming it is usually developmental, as most children with GD don't have it in adulthood?