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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

not to have reported this man?

104 replies

CantTell · 21/05/2011 17:49

My boss, who acted massively inappropriately with me. Started off just being 'friendly', then progressed to putting his hand up my skirt and trying to kiss me, and being quite unpleasant when he was refused.

I haven't told anyone official about it. I couldn't face having to explain it, and having people doubt it. Plus he has a wife and children - how would it affect them if he lost his job for something like that (if he even did lose his job - he is very senior, wouldn't be surprised if it was all hushed up)? I know it was his fault for doing it, but wouldn't I be partly responsible for the problems it might cause them if I did anything about it?

OP posts:

PigletJohn · 22/05/2011 21:40

FFS you have got to make an official complaint.

Make it in writing to head of HR (if a big firm) or senior partner (if not

or it might get swept under the carpet and when it happens again they will say "we had no idea"

How old will the next girl be? And what will he do to her?

PacificDogwood · 22/05/2011 21:40

Oh good, you're back - I felt I had been really harsh after I seemed to have killed the thread.

You and lots of other perfectly capable women feel helpless when confronted with sexual predators like him;; that's what makes me angry. Do you think if he were the office junior and you the CEO of the company, he'd have tried it on?? This is not about sex, or him fancying you, or him having a 'problem' with you: this is a about power and his need to assert himself over you. He probably has a very small dick . Or other insecurities and reducing you (and I am in no doubt, others before you, and some more after you) to quivering jellies gets his rock off, saddo (him, not you).

As soon as you feel confident, he will not try anything on with you. Finding that confidence is the tricky bit. I do like thederkinsdame's meat cleaver idea .

Honestly, do some self-defense, there are good courses for women especially. I am suggesting this not because I necessarily want you to fling him on his back (tempting as this may be), but knowing that you could might help you to have the self-belief tell him in no uncertain terms where to go if he Ever. Comes. Near. You. Again.

Or pepperspray .

atswimtwolengths · 22/05/2011 21:54

CantTell how often has he done this to you? And is it escalating?

Original poster

CantTell · 22/05/2011 22:25

Pacific, you weren't too harsh.

Although I am definitely of the view that sexual assault is about power, I can't quite square it in this situation. I think at first he was just trying it on, hoping to get a shag or an affair out of it. It did start slowly, as I said, with a hug which I thought was a bit odd but didn't feel I could react negatively to as that might be unkind. Then it was putting his hand on my back if we were walking together, or if we were looking at the same computer monitor. Again, I didn't do anything. The first time he tried to kiss me, well he DID kiss me, and I didn't react because I couldn't quite believe it. The time he put his hand up my skirt he was sitting down and I was standing away from him (because I didn't want him to do anything) and he told me to come nearer to him so I did and that was when he did it.

It was when that happened that I started trying to get him to stop, but couldn't say anything stronger than 'I don't think that's a good idea', which he wouldn't accept, or pretended not to understand. He also sort of trapped me in the corner of this L-shaped desk while asking me what was the problem, why was I being 'different'. It hasn't escalated beyond that.

I think he liked me at first because I was quite chirpy and confident, and obviously this has knocked that out of me a bit so I'm not really any more. A big part of me still thinks this was just a really, really clumsy way of trying to start an affair (not that that's such a great thing anyway!) I think he thought it was seductive of him, and I didn't knock him back straight away.

So even though I know he shouldn't have done it I still think it's a bit my fault for not being clearer, even though I think it was clear enough iyswim.

OP posts:

thederkinsdame · 22/05/2011 22:42

CantTell, you're in the situation and I can only go by what you are saying here, but believe me, it doesn't sound to me like he's clumsily trying to start an affair. He is sexually assualting you, that's the bottom line. Put it this way, if someone you vaguely knew did it in the street, it would be assault and the fact that he is your boss makes no odds. Please don't make excuses for his behaviour or the consequences. That's what gives dirtbags like this their power.

He is exerting power over you and is enjoying watching you feel uncomfortable. It gives him a thrill and as previous posters have said, he has probably done it before. You need to take control and put him in his place, before matters get more out of hand and believe me he will try. He is a nasty, misogynist who wants to feel powerful. I know it's hard, but you have to screw up every ounce of your courage and tell him, forcefully yet very quietly, that he is being a wanker. Seriously. Tell him if he comes within 5 feet of you you'll staple his balls to the desk. You have to show him you are not scared, as he is feeding off your fear.

Keep a diary of every incident and comment. See if you can set your phone to record when you are alone, in case he says or does anything you can use as evidence that he is harrassing you, but speak up.

Original poster

CantTell · 22/05/2011 22:56

Can someone like this have a sort of split personality - be like this with one person but still be an alright husband and father?

OP posts:

thederkinsdame · 22/05/2011 23:08

CantTell, I wouldn't even worry about how he is at home. He may be nice as pie, or he might be a womanising, abusive so and so. What matter is how he is behaving at work. Answer: he is abusing his position, sexually assualting staff and being downright unprofessional. Sorry to sound blunt, but he needs sorting out and you need to tell him in no uncertain terms that he is behaving like a nobber. If he's married, ask him if his wife knows how he treats his staff.

TigerseyeMum · 23/05/2011 00:01

Absolutely no proof or witnesses. He would just deny it outright and everyone would believe him...everything else stacks up against it - lack of proof, his family, me being weak...

Or...he has done this to lots of women, there has been frequent circumstancial evidence and your complaint may well back up previous allegations made. As we discussed at work last week, circumstancial evidence is still helpful when it comes to building a case against someone. You won't be the only person he has assaulted. You won't be the last.

Think of it this way: you are enabling him to keep lying to his wife, his child, and to keep assaulting any women unfortunate enough to cross his path. But you can help bring it to an end.

And, if nothing else, taking action will enable you to keep your self esteem. If you do nothing that will crumble.

You know you have to report the incident. You are just trying to find a way out of it because it is frightening. Which is understandable, but the bottom line is you will feel worse in the long run if you try to avoid it.

PlentyOfPrimroses · 23/05/2011 09:19

Even if you don't feel ready to report this, please talk to someone in RL about what's going on - a counsellor, close friend or relative, a helpline maybe (anybody know any?). Perhaps it will give you the courage to report but even if it doesn't, you need to see that this isn't your fault. Continuing to appease and make excuses for this abusive man makes you vulnerable to it happening again and again.

MadamDeathstare · 23/05/2011 12:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

CantTell · 24/05/2011 00:00

Hmm well

Did my best to make a stand. Said 'I really don't think this is a good idea - it's making me feel really bad because you're married and got children'. Him - 'what's that got to do with anything?' (nice) I said 'it can't carry on, I'm going to have to tell someone if it does'

He just sort of stared at me for a minute then tipped my files off my desk.

Maybe he's got it now?

OP posts:

PigletJohn · 24/05/2011 00:03

Don't be silly. It's no good hoping it will go away. You have got to make an official complaint. In writing. Start drafting it now.

You want to give in. don't you?

Original poster

CantTell · 24/05/2011 00:09

'Give in' as in have sex with him to make him shut up?

Or give in as in don't report him?

OP posts:

CheerfulYank · 24/05/2011 00:23

If this were my husband you bet your arse I'd want to know! Do not let him get away with this.

Good luck, be brave. You can do this.

PigletJohn · 24/05/2011 00:37

and if it were your daughter next time, yank?

CheerfulYank · 24/05/2011 00:39

I'm sorry?

I'm encouraging the OP to report it...what has that to do with my hypothetical daughter? If I ever have a daughter, I'll teach her what I'm teaching my son: that it is never, ever ok for anyone to touch you in a way you don't like. If you ask them to stop, and they don't, scream the house down.

PigletJohn · 24/05/2011 00:42

I meant, it is not just the man's wife that deserves to know.

I meant it is all his future victims as well that deserve to be protected from him.

Most men are not like that and would be disgusted by his behaviour.

PigletJohn · 24/05/2011 00:43

I am strongly against sweeping it under the carpet.

Original poster

CantTell · 24/05/2011 00:47

I can't actually stop him being the way he is. It's not as if I can get him locked up or kept away from women. HR would just say 'yes we're looking into it' and do nothing. NO ONE is going to seriously question him about anything like that, they just wouldn't.

OP posts:

PigletJohn · 24/05/2011 00:52

How do you know what will happen if you make an official, written complaint? In my experience businesses are very scared of being given official notice of anything wrong, because then they won't be able to say "we knew nothing about it, we had no reason to suspect him" when for example he rapes a 15-year old in the stationery cupboard next time.

They will have to take it seriously and will have to investigate it. You surely don't think you're the first?

Obviously these days you have no union to support you, which is a pity.

MadamDeathstare · 24/05/2011 01:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bleedingstill · 24/05/2011 01:09

I am disgusted at the file tipping. What a childish idiot

CheerfulYank · 24/05/2011 01:46

There are no unions?

I didn't mean to imply that I only wanted the man's wife to know, PigletJohn ! The OP asked earlier if we'd really want to know if it was us, and I for one definitely would. That's all I was saying.

kelly2525 · 24/05/2011 02:18

The minute he put his hand up my skirt I wouldve asked him how long did he think he would get on the sex offenders register for that? Then I wouldve screamed, move it or Ill fucking break it, loud enough for others to hear, but if you dont like confrontation what can you do?

OP, you have to do something, he has to be stopped, hes a creep and if he thinks he can get away with it with one woman, he`ll keep doing it, then what?

flipflopfly · 24/05/2011 04:13

Ok prepared for a flaming on this but here goes... (and sorry its long)

Op I think in your heart you know this needs reporting but some part of you is wary about being seen as instigating it or encouraging it. You talk about being flirty, chirpy etc. I'm sure you're worried about other people but I also suspect you're worried about yourself, your career and your reputation. And there isn't anything wrong with being worried about all that. So your heart knows what to do but your head is not convinced.

I would speak to someone - maybe HR, maybe your agency, maybe even just someone else in the office you trust. Make sure you tell it as simple and basic as you can (not to lessen what he has done, but to ensure it stays professional). Take their advice on what to do next - who to speak to, how to handle situations with him in the future. Ultimately you probably do have to make it official but by taking someone else's advice who knows the situation you'll probably be able to see it more clearly - and frankly more clearly than any of us on the internet can.

FWIW when I was younger a manager tried something very similar on with me - unfortunately we were on a business trip at the time so I was kind of isolated. I also think it was a clumsy way to start an affair as opposed to an assault - however it was completely unacceptable, knocked all my confidence and for about a month I hid myself in long baggy clothes and hardly spoke. (BTW I've also been "accused" of being flirty in the past and as an aside of this situation I did take a honest look at my own behaviour in the workplace - I know I didn't do anything wrong but I did think hard about what was professional friendliness and what was over familiarity and make some changes)

Eventually I spoke to another manager who I knew and trusted - he made me realise I had done nothing wrong, he helped make changes in the office that meant I didn't have to work closely - and never business trips alone - with the man. And I know he reported it to HR on my behalf without using my name - as there had never been a previous report about him I assume nothing happened more than it was noted and again I believe he was spoken to.

Now this may not go far enough for some people - some people will think I wussed out and in your situation its the boss so maybe it will be hard for HR or another manager to work out what the next step is. Maybe the agency is the right way to go as they are one step removed from his direct management.

But you need to do this for your own self confidence as well as for others who may come after you.

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