Ken Clarke differentiates date rape from 'serious rape'

[NotFromConcentrate]

AIBU to think it's time he went?

otchayaniya - Yes, I read your post immediately after I'd posted mine and thought it was "funny" we'd reconciled our experiences from totally different ends of the "rape spectrum"!

pointissima

"In the bit I saw, however, I think he was trying to distinguish between statutory rape (both parties willing but one technically unable to consent because underage) and all other sorts of rape, by way of explaining why the average sentence seems so short (stats include stat rape)."

He specifically mentioned 18yo having consensual sex with 15yo.
How many 18yo do you think are in prison in the UK for this? I am willing to bet my right arm it is none / a handful.
There is no way that 18yo are going to prison for consensual sex in such numbers that it would skew the average sentance stats.
As justice minister he must know this and if he doesn't and his ideas are based purely on rape myths then he is not fit for his job.

I think he's toast actually after today's antics

So we are still left with a system that requires you to be abducted in broad daylight by a total stranger and left for dead, otherwise you were only a bit raped

Sometimes there is no "violence" because of the THREAT of violence. I know someone who was raped by a stranger, didn't have a scratch on her, because he TOLD her he had a knife and that he would use it if she screamed/struggled.

Thankfully the judge in her case said he saw it as irrelevant whether there was a knife or not and gave the bastard 8 years.

Sardine, that's a very good point. If he really thinks this, he is unfit for the position. Quite scary that he holds it at the moment, tbh.

Very interesting article here on rape vs "rape-rape" (Whoopi Goldberg's stupid phrase). Written by a man, no less. Fascinating statistics and also the conclusions he draws. Well worth a read.

"The vast majority of the offenses are being committed by a relatively small group of men, somewhere between 4% and 8% of the population, who do it again ? and again ? and again. That just doesn?t square with the notion of innocent mistake. Further, since the repeaters are also responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of the intimate partner violence, child beating and child sexual abuse, the notion that these predators are somehow confused good guys does not square with the data. Most of the raping is done by guys who like to rape, and to abuse, assault and violate. If we could get the one-in-twelve or one-in-25 repeat rapists out of the population (that is a lot of men ? perhaps six or twelve million men in the U.S. alone) or find a way to stop them from hurting others, most sexual assault, and a lot of intimate partner violence and child abuse, would go away. Really."

yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

Utter, utter twat. Anyone who understands so little about rape should not be the Justice Secretary. Shocking views and he's so bloody ignorant he doesn't even realise it. What incredible damage his words have probably done to all the victims of 'less serious' (!!!!!!) rape who now won't come forwards. Vile little man - if he doesn't reign he needs sacking!!

Telegraph - stunned as well

toast

A Downing Street spokeswoman has apparently replied "Yes" when asked if Ken Clarke will last the day in his job.

If he can't differentiate between statutory rape(underage but consensual) and rape (by a stranger or a person known to the victim) then he is in no position to stand as Justice Minister and should be sacked today.

can he take Nadine Dorries with him when he goes please?

"So we are still left with a system that requires you to be abducted in broad daylight by a total stranger and left for dead, otherwise you were only a bit raped "

You forgot to mention that you have not be wearing a mini-skirt or matching underwear as this means you have already consented to sex.

Well the Curse of Clarke has stuck again. I do hope that Cameron sees sense and gets him out of that job by the end of the day.

YANBU
The man is a disgrace

My point though Celia is that he seemed to classify date rape alongside statutory rape. From the magnitude of the outcry both from within and outside of Parliament, it seems I am not alone in taking this from what he said.

YANBU!

What he actually said:

When BBC interviewer Victoria Derbyshire interrupted to say "Rape is rape, with respect" Mr Clarke replied: "No it's not, if an 18-year-old has sex with a 15 year old and she's perfectly willing, that is rape. Because she is under age, she can't consent... What you and I are talking about is we are talking about a man forcibly having sex with a woman and she doesn't want to - a serious crime."

He also said date rapes were included in the figures which could be "sometimes very confusing" adding: "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another, and in the end the judge has to decided on the circumstances."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13436429

Meanwhile, the Guardian are claiming Ken Clarke said "date rape" did not count as a serious offence.
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/may/18/david-cameron-urged-sack-kenneth-clarke-rape
Nice bit of reporting: mis-represents the truth, damages Mr Clarke, and probably drags up a lot of pain for victims of date rape, the overwhelming majority of whom will have seen no-one punished.
I'm afraid The Guardian is no longer a serious newspaper.

Rape is rape, end of.

You can't distinguish between a "violent" rape and a "non-violent" rape - the act itself is violent!

Sorry I meant "differentiate" not "distinguish"

Yes, I know NFC - I agree with you. I don't think date rape and statutory rape are in anyway alike.

AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH, I've just heard him. Humans are really no different from any other large land mammal are they? Certain humans. Sorry I just can't get that image of Dominique Strauss-Kahn as a 'rutting gorilla' (as described by another alleged victim) out of my mind. God, I despair I really do. These are some of the men that run the world. What chance do we have as a species really?

Sorry, need to rant.

MrsBethel "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another"

What do you think he meant by that? From what he says, it sounds like date rape is only sometimes as serious as the 'worst rapes'. If additional violence is viewed seperately, what is he suggesting?

"Sorry I just can't get that image of Dominique Strauss-Kahn as a 'rutting gorilla'"

Please remember, that he is accused of attempted rape, he hasn't been convicted. And I speak as a journalist who knows all the stories about him and who certainly wouldn't have met him alone.

"Humans are really no different from any other large land mammal are they?"

You are absolutely right. As a Darwinist, and not a Humanist, I agree with you. But your point is?

YANBU

I remember his supposed "mis-speaking" last year as well, where he expressed sympathy for men accused of rape having their lives ruined. Missing out the word "falsely". So - expressing sympathy for rapists basically.