Ken Clarke differentiates date rape from 'serious rape'

[NotFromConcentrate]

AIBU to think it's time he went?

great post again Sardine.

ccpccp, don't let your obvious dislike of one poster stop you from attempting to take pat in a worthwhile debate. You should rise above that.

that's what I was trying to say

I don't think his contributions are that relevant but he's making them even less so by being an arse.

"ccpccp, don't let your obvious dislike of one poster stop you from attempting to take pat in a worthwhile debate. You should rise above that."

You need to stop enabling DuelingFanjo, and clean house. Or do none of you have the guts to stand up to the bigotry and bullying? I see it happens in the Feminist section also.

Deleted by mumsnet? Ha ha :)

sigh. I may not always agree with what poters say but I try not to insult them if I can help it. You aren't doing yourself or your 'argument' any favours by posting so idiotically. I think I will just ignore from now on.

Dittany - I was replying to CCPCCP not to you. [unsure]

I am sorry if you felt like I was undermining you. I was attempting to defend you in a way, though I didn't mention any names as I didn't want to bring you into it. Sorry that you feel like I was doing so

I find ccpccp's posts in this thread quite distressing and annoying anyway, regardless of your involvement.

dittany FAIR COMMENT.....the rape debate has gone from the papers and Radio and TV news. Its a runner here , where everyone seems to have an opinion. The tabloids have moved to Twitter and the judges today.

sorry that [unsure] should be .

I'm not at all unsure about what it was I was doing. Feel like I have somehow got myself involved in some kind of argument I wasn't intending to create or make worse but am assuming it's all a big misunderstanding.

Apologies for derailing what is otherwise an interesting thread.

I hope it has changed the opinions of some.

ah -ok xpost.

sorry again :)

I'll stop now

Sorry for being so horrid to both of you.

It's an an interesting point that the law takes into account violence as an aggravating feature as a relevant point for sentencing, however it made me think about the instances where a woman would submit for fear of violence and whether this in itself should be an aggravating feature? In other words, a measurement of the fear of violence. Purely subjective, I know.

Not entirely the same thing ILMD but I was thinking this morning of when a man rubbed me between my legs when I was nine and I just sat there, frozen, and let him do it. So many of the stories on here (and on the survey) are young, inexperienced women who are paralysed when they are assaulted by an older man. Is that about a fear of violence? Or just fear full stop? I don't know how you'd judge whether or not a rapist is likely to be violent if a woman puts up a fight. It's probably impossible

How can you have all-female jurys, isn't the point of a jury to be a cross-section of society chosen at random. An all-female jury couldn't be an accurate representation of society for obvious reasons.

CP I would hazard that another reason for the reaction is that the person who is being assaulted has literally no idea how to react / what to do. Especially children and younger women. If it's the first time that anything of this type has happened to you, then it is outside the realm of your experience, it's quite literally and quite simply not knowing what the fuck to do.

I am sure that this is why lots of predators go after girls and younger women, as they know they are more likely to get this sort of reaction, and the victim is more likely to be so confused that they won't tell anyone / report it.

So I think there are lots of reasons.

But Obama has a great point. If you fight back you are more likely to be injured and thus the attack will be taken more seriously by everyone. If you don't fight back it is therefore seen as less bad by a lot of people. But people react how they react, if they don't fight that's not their fault, if they dont know how or are too scared or whatever. But as things stand without injuries the chances are that you will never get anywhere with it.

The whole things a mess.

'Circumstances' means 'To what degree did the victim provoke the attack?'. There is no other interpretation of this term in the context of rape. KC should therefore be shown the door.

rape is rape is rape. End Of.

I have been raped many times by people of trust. With both men (on separate occasions) I ended up just laying there letting them get on with it. I also allowed myself to get into these sitautions. First time I was 9 and went over to a derelict house with a boy who was a few years older than me. The other times I went over to a forrestry area with a boy a few years older than me. Both times I didnt realise the situation which was waiting for me.

But obviously my rapes were in the "not so serious" criteria because there was no violence involved and the fact that I allowed myself to go "for a walk" with the boys.